Discussion:
Muslim Meat Marketing
(too old to reply)
JMartin
2004-09-02 22:04:15 UTC
Permalink
I was approached by a muslim guy who wants lambs and goats. He also wanted
to say a prayer when the animal was slaughtered. That is all he
wanted...nothing more, despite what the official halal laws are.

My processor said ok. I found some lambs and goats. I'm thinking that
there might be a bit of miscommunication though so I want to be sure I'm
getting him what he wants.

What size goats do muslims generally prefer? Do they cook a whole goat up
at once, or do they want it cut up like a lamb would be? I've heard they
want the lamb lean, but pretty much cut like usual (maybe some slight
variations), but I'm not sure on the goats. Never sold a goat before, but
I'm going to get two so I can try it.

I do have a few "pet" (read that wild) goats. IIMHO, eating a goat is
perfect revenge.

Jena
Ray
2004-09-03 00:13:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by JMartin
I was approached by a muslim guy who wants lambs and goats. He also wanted
to say a prayer when the animal was slaughtered. That is all he
wanted...nothing more, despite what the official halal laws are.
My processor said ok. I found some lambs and goats. I'm thinking that
there might be a bit of miscommunication though so I want to be sure I'm
getting him what he wants.
What he wants is his arse kicking back to his own country.
And so do you for thinking of selling your produce to these perverts.

Have you any idea what goes on in a Halal slaughterhouse?
Post by JMartin
What size goats do muslims generally prefer? Do they cook a whole goat up
at once, or do they want it cut up like a lamb would be? I've heard they
want the lamb lean, but pretty much cut like usual (maybe some slight
variations), but I'm not sure on the goats. Never sold a goat before, but
I'm going to get two so I can try it.
I do have a few "pet" (read that wild) goats. IIMHO, eating a goat is
perfect revenge.
Jena
Offbreed
2004-09-02 23:55:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray
What he wants is his arse kicking back to his own country.
And so do you for thinking of selling your produce to these perverts.
Have you any idea what goes on in a Halal slaughterhouse?
Do you?

Hint: Halal slaughter has the same basis as Kosher, and is intended to
get fresh killed meat to the table, without exposing it to things that
incidentally are likely to result in bacterial contamination.

Parts are silly superstition, parts accidently mirror good sanitary
practice.
AL
2004-09-03 04:53:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Offbreed
Halal slaughter has the same basis as Kosher, and is intended to
get fresh killed meat to the table, without exposing it to things that
incidentally are likely to result in bacterial contamination.
Parts are silly superstition, parts accidently mirror good sanitary
practice.
Maybe it was no 'accident'. Maybe, somewhere in an ancient time good
sanitation (or food selection) was understood. Given human tendancy to
remember a good story over boring and largely incomprehensible facts,
silly superstitions were devised to insure the survival of critical
information. Imagine the difficulty of decribing the cause trichinosis
to someone 4000 years ago. Much easier to say 'unclean' and let it go at
that...





AL
Ray Drouillard
2004-09-03 14:12:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by AL
Post by Offbreed
Halal slaughter has the same basis as Kosher, and is intended to
get fresh killed meat to the table, without exposing it to things that
incidentally are likely to result in bacterial contamination.
Parts are silly superstition, parts accidently mirror good sanitary
practice.
Maybe it was no 'accident'. Maybe, somewhere in an ancient time good
sanitation (or food selection) was understood. Given human tendancy to
remember a good story over boring and largely incomprehensible facts,
silly superstitions were devised to insure the survival of critical
information. Imagine the difficulty of decribing the cause trichinosis
to someone 4000 years ago. Much easier to say 'unclean' and let it go at
that...
AL
Or, it could be that God knew what he was doing when he told Moses what
to put into the Torah.


Ray
Larry Caldwell
2004-09-04 03:25:54 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@uni-berlin.de>, ***@comcast.net (Ray
Drouillard) says...
Post by Ray Drouillard
Post by AL
Maybe it was no 'accident'. Maybe, somewhere in an ancient time good
sanitation (or food selection) was understood. Given human tendancy to
remember a good story over boring and largely incomprehensible facts,
silly superstitions were devised to insure the survival of critical
information. Imagine the difficulty of decribing the cause trichinosis
to someone 4000 years ago. Much easier to say 'unclean' and let it go
at that...
Or, it could be that God knew what he was doing when he told Moses what
to put into the Torah.
The pig was tabu to the ancient Jews because they worshipped
Attis/Adonai/Adonis (shows up in the OT as Tammuz) and the pig was
sacred.

http://users.compaqnet.be/cn111132/Frazer/117.html

The rise of monotheism in the 5th century BC obscured many of the
religious reasons for Jewish traditions.
--
http://home.teleport.com/~larryc
Ray Drouillard
2004-09-04 04:03:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Caldwell
Drouillard) says...
Post by Ray Drouillard
Post by AL
Maybe it was no 'accident'. Maybe, somewhere in an ancient time good
sanitation (or food selection) was understood. Given human
tendancy to
Post by Larry Caldwell
Post by Ray Drouillard
Post by AL
remember a good story over boring and largely incomprehensible facts,
silly superstitions were devised to insure the survival of
critical
Post by Larry Caldwell
Post by Ray Drouillard
Post by AL
information. Imagine the difficulty of decribing the cause
trichinosis
Post by Larry Caldwell
Post by Ray Drouillard
Post by AL
to someone 4000 years ago. Much easier to say 'unclean' and let it go
at that...
Or, it could be that God knew what he was doing when he told Moses what
to put into the Torah.
The pig was tabu to the ancient Jews because they worshipped
Attis/Adonai/Adonis (shows up in the OT as Tammuz) and the pig was
sacred.
http://users.compaqnet.be/cn111132/Frazer/117.html
The rise of monotheism in the 5th century BC obscured many of the
religious reasons for Jewish traditions.
There is no doubt that there are also religious reasons. The bit about
not piercing yourself in commemoration of your dead relatives is a
direct reaction to that practice in other religions. The same goes for
cooking a kid goat in its mother's milk. The prohibition against
sacrificing your child to Baal, aside from being redundant for two
reasons, directly addresses that practice by the baalites.

On the other hand, the whole complicated idea of an unclean object
making a small body of water unclean, but a large body of water being
able to wash an unclean object makes tons of sense today. So does the
admonition to dig a latrine well outside the camp, and to relieve
yourself there.

As for pigs -- well, there has been some research done that indicates
that eating pork isn't all that good for you. I still don't know where
to go with that one.


Ray Drouillard
Ray
2004-09-03 08:56:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Offbreed
Post by Ray
What he wants is his arse kicking back to his own country.
And so do you for thinking of selling your produce to these perverts.
Have you any idea what goes on in a Halal slaughterhouse?
Do you?
Yes.
Post by Offbreed
Hint: Halal slaughter has the same basis as Kosher, and is intended to
get fresh killed meat to the table, without exposing it to things that
incidentally are likely to result in bacterial contamination.
Crap, Kalal and Kosher are barbaric.
Post by Offbreed
Parts are silly superstition, parts accidently mirror good sanitary
practice.
Clarify
Offbreed
2004-09-05 02:30:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray
Post by Offbreed
Post by Ray
What he wants is his arse kicking back to his own country.
And so do you for thinking of selling your produce to these perverts.
Have you any idea what goes on in a Halal slaughterhouse?
Do you?
Yes.
Post by Offbreed
Hint: Halal slaughter has the same basis as Kosher, and is intended to
get fresh killed meat to the table, without exposing it to things that
incidentally are likely to result in bacterial contamination.
Crap, Kalal and Kosher are barbaric.
Describe what you consider to be the barbaric parts. I'm no mind reader.
Post by Ray
Post by Offbreed
Parts are silly superstition, parts accidently mirror good sanitary
practice.
Clarify
For one, the Jews were cleaner than the Christians, so allowing
Christians to handle food was a good way to get e. colii in your lunch.
Halcitron
2004-09-03 01:01:27 UTC
Permalink
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 00:13:38 +0000 (UTC)
What he wants is his arse kicking back to his own country.
And so do you for thinking of selling your produce to these perverts.
"Pervert" relates to a sexual indoctrination of children. Are you sure you can
speak English, enough to communicate clearly?
Have you any idea what goes on in a Halal slaughterhouse?
No, so why don't you enlighten us with your "inside" knowledge.

Get a life.

:/


caveat lector

Halcitron misc.survivalism alt.survival
"Failing to prepare.... Is preparing to fail."
NRA Member since 2002
The Law of the Land, is the weapon in your hand.

Smith & Wesson starts where the Bill of Rights stop.
Ray
2004-09-03 08:58:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Halcitron
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 00:13:38 +0000 (UTC)
What he wants is his arse kicking back to his own country.
And so do you for thinking of selling your produce to these perverts.
"Pervert" relates to a sexual indoctrination of children. Are you sure you can
speak English, enough to communicate clearly?
Have you any idea what goes on in a Halal slaughterhouse?
No, so why don't you enlighten us with your "inside" knowledge.
Get a life.
I'll try and find a decnt link later.
Post by Halcitron
:/
caveat lector
Halcitron misc.survivalism alt.survival
"Failing to prepare.... Is preparing to fail."
NRA Member since 2002
The Law of the Land, is the weapon in your hand.
Smith & Wesson starts where the Bill of Rights stop.
Ray
2004-09-03 12:21:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray
Post by Halcitron
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 00:13:38 +0000 (UTC)
What he wants is his arse kicking back to his own country.
And so do you for thinking of selling your produce to these perverts.
"Pervert" relates to a sexual indoctrination of children.
Wrong

Are you sure you
Post by Ray
can
Post by Halcitron
speak English, enough to communicate clearly?
Depends on your comprehension.

[Pervert - Turn aside from its propper use, misconstrue,misapply,lead astray
from right opinion]
[Perverted Person - Person showing sexual perversion]

The word 'pervert' is often associated with the sexual indoctrination of
children, but equally it can be
used to describe abuse of either animals or children.

OK?
Post by Ray
Post by Halcitron
Have you any idea what goes on in a Halal slaughterhouse?
No, so why don't you enlighten us with your "inside" knowledge.
Get a life.
I'll try and find a decnt link later.
Found one, you can even watch the video
Post by Ray
Post by Halcitron
http://www.viva.org.uk/campaigns/slaughter/index.htm
caveat lector
Halcitron misc.survivalism alt.survival
"Failing to prepare.... Is preparing to fail."
NRA Member since 2002
The Law of the Land, is the weapon in your hand.
Smith & Wesson starts where the Bill of Rights stop.
Offbreed
2004-09-05 02:35:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray
Found one, you can even watch the video
Post by Halcitron
http://www.viva.org.uk/campaigns/slaughter/index.htm
LOL

That explains your position. Either a veggy head or an AR, or Ball under
a new nym.
Ray Drouillard
2004-09-05 04:03:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Offbreed
Post by Ray
Found one, you can even watch the video
Post by Halcitron
http://www.viva.org.uk/campaigns/slaughter/index.htm
LOL
That explains your position. Either a veggy head or an AR, or Ball under
a new nym.
I have to admit that the site is rather interesting. The language used
in the site is designed to cause an emotional reaction rather than
inform -- typical of propaganda. And what's the point of the picture of
animal heads in a stainless steel bin, anyhow? It's no secret that you
have to do something with the head when you kill an animal.

I don't know what the deal is with that water bath for killing poultry.
Why bother? For commercial uses, a guillotine would work well -- at
least as well as the traditional hatchet and chopping block.

I have used the chopping block before, but it's too easy to miss if the
chicken jerks at the last second. I ended up half-chopping this poor
broiler hen (who had worse problems -- it was a mercy killing more than
anything else). In my haste to finish the job, I ended up putting a
nice gash in my left index finger. (It's mostly healed now, ARA folks,
thanks for your concern).

I did in a rooster yesterday by putting him into a killing cone and
slicing his neck -- very similar to Halal or Kosher (though I didn't say
the prayer -- I'll save that for when we save grace before we heat him).
It worked very well. He was unconscious very quickly, he bled well, and
the meat is clean. He is now resting nicely in our refrigerator. If
you let the meat age properly, it will be more tender.

The idea of an animal waking while bleeding to death is silly. If the
carotid is cut, the animal becomes unconscious within seconds. In that
rooster's case, it took perhaps a second or two. He didn't even have
time to squawk.

I still haven't decided what we are going to do with the other eleven
roosters. They need to grow for another month or so, anyhow. I might
take the easy way out and pay some Amish folks to do the deed. I'm not
fond of messing with guts.


Ray Drouillard
Fran
2004-09-05 05:10:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray Drouillard
I did in a rooster yesterday
If
Post by Ray Drouillard
you let the meat age properly, it will be more tender.
No it won't. It will just be putrified. Chook is never 'aged' but is eaten
very quickly.
Ray Drouillard
2004-09-05 15:30:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fran
Post by Ray Drouillard
I did in a rooster yesterday
If
Post by Ray Drouillard
you let the meat age properly, it will be more tender.
No it won't. It will just be putrified. Chook is never 'aged' but is eaten
very quickly.
That's not what it says in my poultry book. Also, the good folks on the
sci-agriculture.poultry list said that it should be aged. We'll be
eating that rooster tomorrow night.


Ray
Michael
2004-09-05 21:19:16 UTC
Permalink
At times like this I sure do miss Skip.

I'm thinking of you guy.
Janet Baraclough..
2004-09-05 19:34:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fran
Post by Ray Drouillard
I did in a rooster yesterday
If
Post by Ray Drouillard
you let the meat age properly, it will be more tender.
No it won't. It will just be putrified. Chook is never 'aged' but is eaten
very quickly.
It depends how you want it to taste. Game birds like pheasant, snipe,
partridge are always hung for several days here to acquire that gamey
flavour. Old fashioned hen keepers similarly hung cockerels and older
hens to help tenderise the meat.

Janet.
RSMEINER
2004-09-05 23:53:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet Baraclough..
It depends how you want it to taste. Game birds like pheasant, snipe,
partridge are always hung for several days here to acquire that gamey
flavour. Old fashioned hen keepers similarly hung cockerels and older
hens to help tenderise the meat.
Janet.
Bet folks there just go wild for road kill then.

Growing up, we ate alot of pheasant.
Tasted just fine without being hung for days.





Randy
http://members.aol.com/rsmeiner
Fran
2004-09-06 08:06:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Fran
Post by Ray Drouillard
I did in a rooster yesterday
If
Post by Ray Drouillard
you let the meat age properly, it will be more tender.
No it won't. It will just be putrified. Chook is never 'aged' but is eaten
very quickly.
It depends how you want it to taste. Game birds like pheasant, snipe,
partridge are always hung for several days here to acquire that gamey
flavour.
Game birds aren't chook. Game birds are traditionally hung to age and the
time of hanging varies according to the breed. They are also traditionally
hung unpaunched in a lot of places in the world. A woman I know who runs
probably the best restaurant I've ever eaten in has a theory that hanging
the birds with their guts prevents spoilage - something to do with the
natural enzymes in the guts stopping the birds from going off. I got too
sqeamish to listen too closely to her theory but she was palnning on writing
a book on it and freely admitted that what she did with game birds in her
restaurant wouldn't pass any Australian health regs.

However, I've never heard of chook being hung unpaunched, nor ideed anything
that could be described correctly as "hung" in the same way that game birds
are hung.

Old fashioned hen keepers similarly hung cockerels and older
Post by Janet Baraclough..
hens to help tenderise the meat.
Not any of the old (or even old fashioned) hen keepers I've ever known.
Being born and raised on a poultry farm that includes quite a few old and
old fashioned hen keepers. The killed and cleaned chook is either eaten or
frozen VERY quickly after death. In fact the only "aging" would be
acceptable to the poultry keepers I know would be killing and cleaning on
day one and eating on day two after the carcase was relaxed but not in any
way "hung".
Ray
2004-09-06 14:28:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fran
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Fran
Post by Ray Drouillard
I did in a rooster yesterday
If
Post by Ray Drouillard
you let the meat age properly, it will be more tender.
No it won't. It will just be putrified. Chook is never 'aged' but is
eaten
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Fran
very quickly.
It depends how you want it to taste. Game birds like pheasant, snipe,
partridge are always hung for several days here to acquire that gamey
flavour.
Game birds aren't chook. Game birds are traditionally hung to age and the
time of hanging varies according to the breed. They are also
traditionally
Post by Fran
hung unpaunched in a lot of places in the world. A woman I know who runs
probably the best restaurant I've ever eaten in has a theory that hanging
the birds with their guts prevents spoilage - something to do with the
natural enzymes in the guts stopping the birds from going off. I got too
sqeamish to listen too closely to her theory but she was palnning on writing
a book on it and freely admitted that what she did with game birds in her
restaurant wouldn't pass any Australian health regs.
However, I've never heard of chook being hung unpaunched, nor ideed anything
that could be described correctly as "hung" in the same way that game birds
are hung.
Old fashioned hen keepers similarly hung cockerels and older
Post by Janet Baraclough..
hens to help tenderise the meat.
Not any of the old (or even old fashioned) hen keepers I've ever known.
Being born and raised on a poultry farm that includes quite a few old and
old fashioned hen keepers. The killed and cleaned chook is either eaten or
frozen VERY quickly after death. In fact the only "aging" would be
acceptable to the poultry keepers I know would be killing and cleaning on
day one and eating on day two after the carcase was relaxed but not in any
way "hung".
Hey you guys,

I was raised some sixty years ago, in those dim and distant days we lived
this way.
There was no alternative - I am ashamed to say we lived as bloody savages.
What's your excuse?
Ray Drouillard
2004-09-06 15:20:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
message
Post by Fran
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Fran
Post by Ray Drouillard
I did in a rooster yesterday
If
Post by Ray Drouillard
you let the meat age properly, it will be more tender.
No it won't. It will just be putrified. Chook is never 'aged' but is
eaten
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Fran
very quickly.
It depends how you want it to taste. Game birds like pheasant, snipe,
partridge are always hung for several days here to acquire that gamey
flavour.
Game birds aren't chook. Game birds are traditionally hung to age and the
time of hanging varies according to the breed. They are also
traditionally
Post by Fran
hung unpaunched in a lot of places in the world. A woman I know who runs
probably the best restaurant I've ever eaten in has a theory that hanging
the birds with their guts prevents spoilage - something to do with the
natural enzymes in the guts stopping the birds from going off. I got too
sqeamish to listen too closely to her theory but she was palnning on
writing
Post by Fran
a book on it and freely admitted that what she did with game birds in her
restaurant wouldn't pass any Australian health regs.
However, I've never heard of chook being hung unpaunched, nor ideed
anything
Post by Fran
that could be described correctly as "hung" in the same way that
game
Post by Michael
birds
Post by Fran
are hung.
Old fashioned hen keepers similarly hung cockerels and older
Post by Janet Baraclough..
hens to help tenderise the meat.
Not any of the old (or even old fashioned) hen keepers I've ever known.
Being born and raised on a poultry farm that includes quite a few old and
old fashioned hen keepers. The killed and cleaned chook is either
eaten
Post by Michael
or
Post by Fran
frozen VERY quickly after death. In fact the only "aging" would be
acceptable to the poultry keepers I know would be killing and cleaning on
day one and eating on day two after the carcase was relaxed but not in any
way "hung".
Hey you guys,
I was raised some sixty years ago, in those dim and distant days we lived
this way.
There was no alternative - I am ashamed to say we lived as bloody savages.
What's your excuse?
Are you implying that we need an excuse for eating meat?

Well, my 'excuse' is that I like it. Also, it is quality protein for my
family.

Of course, there is the issue that it's really impractical to keep all
the roosters that hatch and all the bucklings that are born. Waste not
want not.


Ray Drouillard
Ray Drouillard
2004-09-06 15:56:25 UTC
Permalink
"Ray" <***@syntex.com> wrote in message news:chhs79$bqb$***@titan.btinternet.com...

[...]
Post by Ray
Hey you guys,
I was raised some sixty years ago, in those dim and distant days we lived
this way.
There was no alternative - I am ashamed to say we lived as bloody savages.
What's your excuse?
Here is some news about your buddies:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/animalrights/story/0,11917,1297540,00.html

Who needs the excuse?


Ray Drouillard
(who is glad you are an ocean and half a continent away from me)
enigma
2004-09-06 16:05:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray
I was raised some sixty years ago, in those dim and distant
days we lived this way.
There was no alternative - I am ashamed to say we lived as
bloody savages. What's your excuse?
well, humans are omnivores. some people like meat.
i was vegetarian for many years. i still rarely eat meat,
*but* i don't have any problems ethically with eating it,
provided the animal was raised humanely & died a quick &
painless as possible death.
i do have problems with factory farmed livestock that have to
be pumped full of antibiotics & hormones, are overcrowded,
confined, & lead joyless lives (and yes, i believe even a
stupid chook can feel joy).
besides i don't like 'veggie' foods. if you want something
that looks & tastes like a meat product, then eat meat. it's
just weird to use chemicals & coloring to make something
resemble something it's not.
lee
--
It is paradoxical that many educators and parents still
differentiate
between a time for learning and a time for play without seeing
the vital
connection between them. -Leo Buscaglia, author (1924-1998)
Fran
2004-09-07 00:08:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by enigma
yes, i believe even a
stupid chook can feel joy).
They certainly aren't as bright as a dog but then they aren't all that
stupid either TMWOT. And they certainly know joy. At this time of the year
I love to watch my chooks having a dust bath in the sun. No-one watching
them doing that could ever doubt that they knew joy.
Offbreed
2004-09-07 23:51:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray
I was raised some sixty years ago, in those dim and distant days we lived
this way.
There was no alternative - I am ashamed to say we lived as bloody savages.
What's your excuse?
I am a bloody savage.
Fran
2004-09-08 13:13:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Offbreed
Post by Ray
I was raised some sixty years ago, in those dim and distant days we lived
this way.
There was no alternative - I am ashamed to say we lived as bloody savages.
What's your excuse?
I am a bloody savage.
:-)))

Does that explain your name Offbreed? Are you part Native American?
Offbreed
2004-09-08 23:45:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fran
Post by Offbreed
I am a bloody savage.
:-)))
Does that explain your name Offbreed? Are you part Native American?
Part, as well as having a bit of an odd appearence.
Ray Drouillard
2004-09-06 15:16:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fran
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Fran
Post by Ray Drouillard
I did in a rooster yesterday
If
Post by Ray Drouillard
you let the meat age properly, it will be more tender.
No it won't. It will just be putrified. Chook is never 'aged'
but is
Post by Fran
eaten
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Fran
very quickly.
It depends how you want it to taste. Game birds like pheasant, snipe,
partridge are always hung for several days here to acquire that gamey
flavour.
Game birds aren't chook. Game birds are traditionally hung to age and the
time of hanging varies according to the breed. They are also
traditionally
Post by Fran
hung unpaunched in a lot of places in the world. A woman I know who runs
probably the best restaurant I've ever eaten in has a theory that hanging
the birds with their guts prevents spoilage - something to do with the
natural enzymes in the guts stopping the birds from going off. I got too
sqeamish to listen too closely to her theory but she was palnning on writing
a book on it and freely admitted that what she did with game birds in her
restaurant wouldn't pass any Australian health regs.
However, I've never heard of chook being hung unpaunched, nor ideed anything
that could be described correctly as "hung" in the same way that game birds
are hung.
Old fashioned hen keepers similarly hung cockerels and older
Post by Janet Baraclough..
hens to help tenderise the meat.
Not any of the old (or even old fashioned) hen keepers I've ever known.
Being born and raised on a poultry farm that includes quite a few old and
old fashioned hen keepers. The killed and cleaned chook is either eaten or
frozen VERY quickly after death. In fact the only "aging" would be
acceptable to the poultry keepers I know would be killing and cleaning on
day one and eating on day two after the carcase was relaxed but not in any
way "hung".
<begin quote>

Aging

Freshly killed chicken, like other meat, must be aged. Aging allows
muscle tissue to relax after it has stiffened as a result of muscle
protein coagulation soon after death. An aged chicken is tastier and
more tender than a chicken cooked or frozen soon after being killed.

<end quote>

page 94
_Storey's Guide to Raising Chickens_
by Gail Damerow

The section goes on to give directions. It does not mention hanging the
chicken up outside -- gutted or ungutted. Instead, the chicken is to be
put in the refrigerator. It should be cooled quickly.

Ours is still there. There is no sign of putrification. We'll be
eating it tonight.


Ray Drouillard
Fran
2004-09-07 00:08:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fran
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Old fashioned hen keepers similarly hung cockerels and older
Post by Janet Baraclough..
hens to help tenderise the meat.
Not any of the old (or even old fashioned) hen keepers I've ever
known.
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Being born and raised on a poultry farm that includes quite a few old
and
Post by Janet Baraclough..
old fashioned hen keepers. The killed and cleaned chook is either
eaten or
Post by Janet Baraclough..
frozen VERY quickly after death. In fact the only "aging" would be
acceptable to the poultry keepers I know would be killing and cleaning
on
Post by Janet Baraclough..
day one and eating on day two after the carcase was relaxed but not in
any
Post by Janet Baraclough..
way "hung".
<begin quote>
Aging
Freshly killed chicken, like other meat, must be aged. Aging allows
muscle tissue to relax after it has stiffened as a result of muscle
protein coagulation soon after death. An aged chicken is tastier and
more tender than a chicken cooked or frozen soon after being killed.
<end quote>
page 94
_Storey's Guide to Raising Chickens_
by Gail Damerow
Ray go ahead and rely on advice from a book and an ng rather than direct
personal experience.

However I do suggest that you make a note of the language used by your
guiding author. Your author and I both use the same terms and for the same
reasons. (Hint: rigor mortus. That is Latin and refers to the stiffness of
death).

I made a specific point of mentioning in my post above that on day 2 the
carcase was 'relaxed' This is all the 'aging' that a chook carcase should
have. (Hint: rigor mortus has gone).

If you want to age chook for days then go right ahead. The world won't care
about how green you turn and your strained guts may teach you a valuable
lesson
Post by Fran
The section goes on to give directions. It does not mention hanging the
chicken up outside -- gutted or ungutted. Instead, the chicken is to be
put in the refrigerator. It should be cooled quickly.
You clearly have problems identifying what is germane to the discussion.

No-one suggested hanging a chook outside nor that it should be ungutted.
Ray Drouillard
2004-09-07 00:58:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fran
Post by Fran
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Old fashioned hen keepers similarly hung cockerels and older
Post by Janet Baraclough..
hens to help tenderise the meat.
Not any of the old (or even old fashioned) hen keepers I've ever
known.
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Being born and raised on a poultry farm that includes quite a few old
and
Post by Janet Baraclough..
old fashioned hen keepers. The killed and cleaned chook is either
eaten or
Post by Janet Baraclough..
frozen VERY quickly after death. In fact the only "aging" would be
acceptable to the poultry keepers I know would be killing and cleaning
on
Post by Janet Baraclough..
day one and eating on day two after the carcase was relaxed but not in
any
Post by Janet Baraclough..
way "hung".
<begin quote>
Aging
Freshly killed chicken, like other meat, must be aged. Aging allows
muscle tissue to relax after it has stiffened as a result of muscle
protein coagulation soon after death. An aged chicken is tastier and
more tender than a chicken cooked or frozen soon after being killed.
<end quote>
page 94
_Storey's Guide to Raising Chickens_
by Gail Damerow
Ray go ahead and rely on advice from a book and an ng rather than direct
personal experience.
I just ate some of that bird. My direct personal experience is that he
was mighty tasty.

As for relying on advice from an ng, I would be doing exactly that if I
listened to you. LOL
Post by Fran
However I do suggest that you make a note of the language used by your
guiding author. Your author and I both use the same terms and for the same
reasons. (Hint: rigor mortus. That is Latin and refers to the
stiffness of
Post by Fran
death).
Yep. It happens.
Post by Fran
I made a specific point of mentioning in my post above that on day 2 the
carcase was 'relaxed' This is all the 'aging' that a chook carcase should
have. (Hint: rigor mortus has gone).
So, we have a problem with semantics.

The author said that the bird can be kept in the refrigerator for up to
five days. We kept him there for four.
Post by Fran
If you want to age chook for days then go right ahead. The world won't care
about how green you turn and your strained guts may teach you a valuable
lesson
We did learn a lesson. We learned that letting the bird sit in the
refrigerator for a few days is a good idea. He was yummy. There is
lots left, and it will be used for pies, soup, sandwhiches, and the
like.
Post by Fran
Post by Fran
The section goes on to give directions. It does not mention hanging the
chicken up outside -- gutted or ungutted. Instead, the chicken is to be
put in the refrigerator. It should be cooled quickly.
You clearly have problems identifying what is germane to the
discussion.
Post by Fran
No-one suggested hanging a chook outside nor that it should be
ungutted.

Actually, someone in this discussion did mention hanging a bird outside.


Ray
JMartin
2004-09-06 16:46:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fran
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Fran
Post by Ray Drouillard
I did in a rooster yesterday
If
Post by Ray Drouillard
you let the meat age properly, it will be more tender.
No it won't. It will just be putrified. Chook is never 'aged' but is
eaten
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Fran
very quickly.
It depends how you want it to taste. Game birds like pheasant, snipe,
partridge are always hung for several days here to acquire that gamey
flavour.
Game birds aren't chook. Game birds are traditionally hung to age and the
time of hanging varies according to the breed. They are also
traditionally
Post by Fran
hung unpaunched in a lot of places in the world. A woman I know who runs
probably the best restaurant I've ever eaten in has a theory that hanging
the birds with their guts prevents spoilage - something to do with the
natural enzymes in the guts stopping the birds from going off. I got too
sqeamish to listen too closely to her theory but she was palnning on writing
a book on it and freely admitted that what she did with game birds in her
restaurant wouldn't pass any Australian health regs.
However, I've never heard of chook being hung unpaunched, nor ideed anything
that could be described correctly as "hung" in the same way that game birds
are hung.
Old fashioned hen keepers similarly hung cockerels and older
Post by Janet Baraclough..
hens to help tenderise the meat.
Not any of the old (or even old fashioned) hen keepers I've ever known.
Being born and raised on a poultry farm that includes quite a few old and
old fashioned hen keepers. The killed and cleaned chook is either eaten or
frozen VERY quickly after death. In fact the only "aging" would be
acceptable to the poultry keepers I know would be killing and cleaning on
day one and eating on day two after the carcase was relaxed but not in any
way "hung".
I have had several people who raise chickens like I do (small scale on
grass) claim that "aging" them makes them more tender. Their idea of aging
is keeping the bird refrigerated, rather than frozen for 24 hours, then
freezing.

I don't know if it makes a difference, but it's not quite the same as what I
think of when someone says "aging".

I freeze all mine as quickly as possible.

Jena
Fran
2004-09-07 00:22:14 UTC
Permalink
The killed and cleaned chook is either eaten
Post by JMartin
or
Post by Fran
frozen VERY quickly after death. In fact the only "aging" would be
acceptable to the poultry keepers I know would be killing and cleaning on
day one and eating on day two after the carcase was relaxed but not in any
way "hung".
I have had several people who raise chickens like I do (small scale on
grass) claim that "aging" them makes them more tender. Their idea of aging
is keeping the bird refrigerated, rather than frozen for 24 hours, then
freezing.
I wouldn't call keeping a chook in the fridge for 24 hours "aging". That is
just a cool down period and gives the carcase time to lose rigor mortus.
Post by JMartin
I don't know if it makes a difference, but it's not quite the same as what I
think of when someone says "aging".
I agree. It certainly isn't what I would call "aging" either.
Post by JMartin
I freeze all mine as quickly as possible.
But you let rigor pass first don't you? I guess you must as all those stiff
birds in the freezer would take up so much space.
JMartin
2004-09-07 01:56:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fran
The killed and cleaned chook is either eaten
Post by JMartin
or
Post by Fran
frozen VERY quickly after death. In fact the only "aging" would be
acceptable to the poultry keepers I know would be killing and cleaning
on
Post by JMartin
Post by Fran
day one and eating on day two after the carcase was relaxed but not in
any
Post by JMartin
Post by Fran
way "hung".
I have had several people who raise chickens like I do (small scale on
grass) claim that "aging" them makes them more tender. Their idea of
aging
Post by JMartin
is keeping the bird refrigerated, rather than frozen for 24 hours, then
freezing.
I wouldn't call keeping a chook in the fridge for 24 hours "aging". That is
just a cool down period and gives the carcase time to lose rigor mortus.
Post by JMartin
I don't know if it makes a difference, but it's not quite the same as
what
Post by Fran
I
Post by JMartin
think of when someone says "aging".
I agree. It certainly isn't what I would call "aging" either.
Post by JMartin
I freeze all mine as quickly as possible.
But you let rigor pass first don't you? I guess you must as all those stiff
birds in the freezer would take up so much space.
It takes a couple days to freeze them. I have to go rotate the chickens
every few hours so they will freeze. I cram 200 chickens into a 25 cu.foot
freezer...

Jena
Janet Baraclough..
2004-09-06 18:59:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Old fashioned hen keepers similarly hung cockerels and older
Post by Janet Baraclough..
hens to help tenderise the meat.
Not any of the old (or even old fashioned) hen keepers I've ever known.
Being born and raised on a poultry farm that includes quite a few old and
old fashioned hen keepers. The killed and cleaned chook is either eaten or
frozen VERY quickly after death. In fact the only "aging" would be
acceptable to the poultry keepers I know would be killing and cleaning on
day one and eating on day two after the carcase was relaxed but not in any
way "hung".
Maybe it's a climate difference? Any (non-frozen) chicken sold by a UK
butcher or supermarket died considerably longer than one day ago.

What about venison beef and lamb, then..do butchers hang that in Australia?

Janet
Fran
2004-09-06 23:30:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Old fashioned hen keepers similarly hung cockerels and older
Post by Janet Baraclough..
hens to help tenderise the meat.
The killed and cleaned chook is either eaten or
frozen VERY quickly after death. In fact the only "aging" would be
acceptable to the poultry keepers I know would be killing and cleaning on
day one and eating on day two after the carcase was relaxed but not in any
way "hung".
Maybe it's a climate difference? Any (non-frozen) chicken sold by a UK
butcher or supermarket died considerably longer than one day ago.
Given how quickly chook goes off I suspect that the death date really
wouldn't be considerably longer. Probably longer than one day ago but if
the time is really "considable" then the whiff of off chicken meat would be
clearly identifiable and there is just no way to disguise that taint. I
don't think that climate differences would impact here given refrigeration.
Home killed chook is (or should if one isn't a 'Ray') eaten quickly while it
still fresh.

What I do think we are seeing here are definitional differences emerging
over time. I note how Ray seems to have identified something being "hung"
with what his guiding book describes as allowing the carcase to "relax". It
is about rigor and relaxing is about the passing of rigor. It isn't
actually about aging the bird in a way that could be campared with the
hanging of game birds.
Post by Janet Baraclough..
What about venison beef and lamb, then..do butchers hang that in Australia?
I don't know about venison (or lamb other than home killed) but butchers do
hang beef in their cool rooms for a fair time. I had heard weeks rather
than days but to be sure will ask my butcher today when I see him.
Ray Drouillard
2004-09-07 00:19:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fran
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Old fashioned hen keepers similarly hung cockerels and older
Post by Janet Baraclough..
hens to help tenderise the meat.
The killed and cleaned chook is either eaten or
frozen VERY quickly after death. In fact the only "aging" would be
acceptable to the poultry keepers I know would be killing and
cleaning
Post by Fran
on
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Janet Baraclough..
day one and eating on day two after the carcase was relaxed but
not in
Post by Fran
any
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Janet Baraclough..
way "hung".
Maybe it's a climate difference? Any (non-frozen) chicken sold by a UK
butcher or supermarket died considerably longer than one day ago.
Given how quickly chook goes off I suspect that the death date really
wouldn't be considerably longer. Probably longer than one day ago but if
the time is really "considable" then the whiff of off chicken meat would be
clearly identifiable and there is just no way to disguise that taint.
I
Post by Fran
don't think that climate differences would impact here given
refrigeration.
Post by Fran
Home killed chook is (or should if one isn't a 'Ray') eaten quickly while it
still fresh.
What I do think we are seeing here are definitional differences emerging
over time. I note how Ray seems to have identified something being "hung"
with what his guiding book describes as allowing the carcase to "relax". It
is about rigor and relaxing is about the passing of rigor. It isn't
actually about aging the bird in a way that could be campared with the
hanging of game birds.
Post by Janet Baraclough..
What about venison beef and lamb, then..do butchers hang that in
Australia?
I don't know about venison (or lamb other than home killed) but butchers do
hang beef in their cool rooms for a fair time. I had heard weeks rather
than days but to be sure will ask my butcher today when I see him.
Which 'Ray' are you talking about -- the religious bigot/animal rights
activist Ray, or the Ray (me) who just ate the bird after letting it age
in the refrigerator.

I didn't pay attention to who brought up 'hanging', but I didn't hang
that bird out. He sat in the refrigerator -- very much the way
prescribed by that book that I quoted earlier. Do I need to requote it
in this part of the thread, or did you read the quote in that other
part?

By the way, we roasted him for a little over two hours. He came out
moist, tender, and very tasty. I am relaxing now as a fine meal of
roast rooster, mashed potatoes, gravy, and freshly picked corn on the
cob digests.

It really doesn't get much better than this. :-)



Ray Drouillard
Fran
2004-09-07 00:16:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
message
Post by Fran
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Old fashioned hen keepers similarly hung cockerels and older
Post by Janet Baraclough..
hens to help tenderise the meat.
The killed and cleaned chook is either eaten or
frozen VERY quickly after death. In fact the only "aging" would
be
Post by Fran
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Janet Baraclough..
acceptable to the poultry keepers I know would be killing and
cleaning
Post by Fran
on
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Janet Baraclough..
day one and eating on day two after the carcase was relaxed but
not in
Post by Fran
any
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Janet Baraclough..
way "hung".
Maybe it's a climate difference? Any (non-frozen) chicken sold by
a UK
Post by Fran
Post by Janet Baraclough..
butcher or supermarket died considerably longer than one day ago.
Given how quickly chook goes off I suspect that the death date really
wouldn't be considerably longer. Probably longer than one day ago but
if
Post by Fran
the time is really "considable" then the whiff of off chicken meat
would be
Post by Fran
clearly identifiable and there is just no way to disguise that taint.
I
Post by Fran
don't think that climate differences would impact here given
refrigeration.
Post by Fran
Home killed chook is (or should if one isn't a 'Ray') eaten quickly
while it
Post by Fran
still fresh.
What I do think we are seeing here are definitional differences
emerging
Post by Fran
over time. I note how Ray seems to have identified something being
"hung"
Post by Fran
with what his guiding book describes as allowing the carcase to
"relax". It
Post by Fran
is about rigor and relaxing is about the passing of rigor. It isn't
actually about aging the bird in a way that could be campared with the
hanging of game birds.
Post by Janet Baraclough..
What about venison beef and lamb, then..do butchers hang that in
Australia?
I don't know about venison (or lamb other than home killed) but
butchers do
Post by Fran
hang beef in their cool rooms for a fair time. I had heard weeks
rather
Post by Fran
than days but to be sure will ask my butcher today when I see him.
I didn't pay attention to who brought up 'hanging', but I didn't hang
that bird out.
It is quite obbvious that you didn't pay attention.

He sat in the refrigerator -- very much the way
Post by Michael
prescribed by that book that I quoted earlier. Do I need to requote it
in this part of the thread, or did you read the quote in that other
part?
You clearly didn't understand what she was writing the first time you typed
it so doing it twice won't help you.
Ray Drouillard
2004-09-07 01:00:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fran
Post by Michael
message
Post by Fran
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Old fashioned hen keepers similarly hung cockerels and older
Post by Janet Baraclough..
hens to help tenderise the meat.
The killed and cleaned chook is either eaten or
frozen VERY quickly after death. In fact the only "aging" would
be
Post by Fran
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Janet Baraclough..
acceptable to the poultry keepers I know would be killing and
cleaning
Post by Fran
on
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Janet Baraclough..
day one and eating on day two after the carcase was relaxed but
not in
Post by Fran
any
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Janet Baraclough..
way "hung".
Maybe it's a climate difference? Any (non-frozen) chicken sold by
a UK
Post by Fran
Post by Janet Baraclough..
butcher or supermarket died considerably longer than one day ago.
Given how quickly chook goes off I suspect that the death date really
wouldn't be considerably longer. Probably longer than one day ago but
if
Post by Fran
the time is really "considable" then the whiff of off chicken meat
would be
Post by Fran
clearly identifiable and there is just no way to disguise that taint.
I
Post by Fran
don't think that climate differences would impact here given
refrigeration.
Post by Fran
Home killed chook is (or should if one isn't a 'Ray') eaten quickly
while it
Post by Fran
still fresh.
What I do think we are seeing here are definitional differences
emerging
Post by Fran
over time. I note how Ray seems to have identified something being
"hung"
Post by Fran
with what his guiding book describes as allowing the carcase to
"relax". It
Post by Fran
is about rigor and relaxing is about the passing of rigor. It isn't
actually about aging the bird in a way that could be campared with the
hanging of game birds.
Post by Janet Baraclough..
What about venison beef and lamb, then..do butchers hang that in
Australia?
I don't know about venison (or lamb other than home killed) but
butchers do
Post by Fran
hang beef in their cool rooms for a fair time. I had heard weeks
rather
Post by Fran
than days but to be sure will ask my butcher today when I see him.
I didn't pay attention to who brought up 'hanging', but I didn't hang
that bird out.
It is quite obbvious that you didn't pay attention.
He sat in the refrigerator -- very much the way
Post by Michael
prescribed by that book that I quoted earlier. Do I need to requote it
in this part of the thread, or did you read the quote in that other
part?
You clearly didn't understand what she was writing the first time you typed
it so doing it twice won't help you.
Fran,

Even when you agree with me, you argue.

OK. It isn't aging. It's letting the chicken 'relax' in the
refrigerator. I did it. It works. The chicken was yummy.


Ray
AL
2004-09-09 02:12:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray Drouillard
Fran,
Even when you agree with me, you argue.
Its an auzzie thing I think. I have relatives living in FL who claim
that auzzies (common in FL from what I hear), second only to greeks, are
among the most obnoxious humans they've eve met.

Of course those scotties can test your patience sometimes... :) :) :)

AL
Kelly E Jones
2004-09-06 22:34:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray Drouillard
I have used the chopping block before, but it's too easy to miss if the
chicken jerks at the last second.
You need a pair of nails hammered partway into the block, spaced about
3/4" apart. Grab the feet, place the neck between the nails, and
gently pull the feet to stretch the neck and pull the head against the
nails. This prevents the chicken from 'jerking', and nicely stretches
the neck to give a better target. It's also good to grab the wingtips
and hold them tightly in the same hand as the feet, this keeps the
chicken from thrashing about and breaking bones, etc. in it's
throes...

Kelly
JMartin
2004-09-03 02:28:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
I was approached by a muslim guy who wants lambs and goats. He also
wanted
Post by JMartin
to say a prayer when the animal was slaughtered. That is all he
wanted...nothing more, despite what the official halal laws are.
My processor said ok. I found some lambs and goats. I'm thinking that
there might be a bit of miscommunication though so I want to be sure I'm
getting him what he wants.
What he wants is his arse kicking back to his own country.
He's an American. Since we are located in America, I don't see any way that
his arse could get kicked back to where it currently is.
Post by JMartin
And so do you for thinking of selling your produce to these perverts.
It's a free country. I'll sell my stuff to whoever I choose. In fact, I'm
kind of hoping that the chicken processor guy will also go for this. Then
there will be me, a white, pointedly non-religious, woman, handing chickens
over to a Amish guy, while a muslim guy says whatever prayers he says.

*That* is a picture that shows what I think America ought to be like.
Everyone working together to meet everyone's needs. I get to sell chickens,
the Amish guy gets to process chickens and the muslim guy gets to eat them.

In fact, the first time we do this, I'm going to wear a t-shirt with an
American flag on it...in your honor.

Jena
Post by JMartin
Have you any idea what goes on in a Halal slaughterhouse?
No and it does not apply. My regular old processor will still be my regular
old processor, processing meat in the regular old way...other than a little
prayer being said, it's business as usual.
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
What size goats do muslims generally prefer? Do they cook a whole goat up
at once, or do they want it cut up like a lamb would be? I've heard they
want the lamb lean, but pretty much cut like usual (maybe some slight
variations), but I'm not sure on the goats. Never sold a goat before, but
I'm going to get two so I can try it.
I do have a few "pet" (read that wild) goats. IIMHO, eating a goat is
perfect revenge.
Jena
Graybyrd
2004-09-03 04:25:37 UTC
Permalink
In article
<50521$4137d6da$ca6147c$***@comwares.allthenewsgroups.com>,
"JMartin" <***@comwares.net> wrote:

[snip]
Post by JMartin
It's a free country. I'll sell my stuff to whoever I choose. In fact, I'm
kind of hoping that the chicken processor guy will also go for this. Then
there will be me, a white, pointedly non-religious, woman, handing chickens
over to a Amish guy, while a muslim guy says whatever prayers he says.
*That* is a picture that shows what I think America ought to be like.
Everyone working together to meet everyone's needs. I get to sell chickens,
the Amish guy gets to process chickens and the muslim guy gets to eat them.
In fact, the first time we do this, I'm going to wear a t-shirt with an
American flag on it...in your honor.
Jena
Bless you, Jena. This is such a huge country with room for all, with a
population come from every corner of the world, with a diversity of
culture and heritage beyond description ... you'd think that by now even
the most backward among us would have learned to appreciate and
celebrate that fact.

A wise middle eastern holy man once remarked that it would be a dull
garden if all the flowers were only one size and color. The beauty of a
garden lies in its diversity.

Gray
--
Reply to: allen/at/graybyrd/dot/com

"Those who figure that freedom is maintained by putting a .50 caliber slug
through anyone and everyone who disagrees with their flag-waving, chest-beating
histrionic rants of patriotism will probably live to see the end of their own
freedoms while hiding behind their locked and shuttered doors, sucking the
barrel of their own shotgun." --me
Doug Chadduck
2004-09-03 06:30:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graybyrd
In article
[snip]
Post by JMartin
It's a free country. I'll sell my stuff to whoever I choose. In fact, I'm
kind of hoping that the chicken processor guy will also go for this. Then
there will be me, a white, pointedly non-religious, woman, handing chickens
over to a Amish guy, while a muslim guy says whatever prayers he says.
*That* is a picture that shows what I think America ought to be like.
Everyone working together to meet everyone's needs. I get to sell chickens,
the Amish guy gets to process chickens and the muslim guy gets to eat them.
In fact, the first time we do this, I'm going to wear a t-shirt with an
American flag on it...in your honor.
Jena
Bless you, Jena. This is such a huge country with room for all, with a
population come from every corner of the world, with a diversity of
culture and heritage beyond description ... you'd think that by now even
the most backward among us would have learned to appreciate and
celebrate that fact.
A wise middle eastern holy man once remarked that it would be a dull
garden if all the flowers were only one size and color. The beauty of a
garden lies in its diversity.
Gray
A lot of people like to look at America as a melting pot of many
different cultures. I've never liked that analogy because you just end
up with one boring color. I remember, years ago, someone saying they
much prefer to look at it as a wonderfully colorful tossed salad, with
all the greens and reds and oranges and yellows and browns and blues and
golds and all the other tossed salad colors. I live in a city of under a
million people where I remember hearing one time that over 60 different
dialects and languages are spoken here. I think that's a pretty amazing
thing.

Doug in Fremont CA
Ray
2004-09-03 12:33:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graybyrd
[snip]
Post by JMartin
It's a free country. I'll sell my stuff to whoever I choose. In fact, I'm
kind of hoping that the chicken processor guy will also go for this.
Then
there will be me, a white, pointedly non-religious, woman, handing chickens
over to a Amish guy, while a muslim guy says whatever prayers he says.
*That* is a picture that shows what I think America ought to be like.
Everyone working together to meet everyone's needs. I get to sell chickens,
the Amish guy gets to process chickens and the muslim guy gets to eat them.
In fact, the first time we do this, I'm going to wear a t-shirt with an
American flag on it...in your honor.
Jena
Bless you, Jena. This is such a huge country with room for all, with a
population come from every corner of the world, with a diversity of
culture and heritage beyond description ... you'd think that by now even
the most backward among us would have learned to appreciate and celebrate
that fact.
A wise middle eastern holy man once remarked that it would be a dull
garden if all the flowers were only one size and color. The beauty of a
garden lies in its diversity.
Gray
A lot of people like to look at America as a melting pot of many different
cultures. I've never liked that analogy because you just end up with one
boring color. I remember, years ago, someone saying they much prefer to
look at it as a wonderfully colorful tossed salad, with all the greens and
reds and oranges and yellows and browns and blues and golds and all the
other tossed salad colors. I live in a city of under a million people
where I remember hearing one time that over 60 different dialects and
languages are spoken here. I think that's a pretty amazing thing.
Enjoy
Doug in Fremont CA
Ray
2004-09-03 12:32:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graybyrd
In article
[snip]
Post by JMartin
It's a free country. I'll sell my stuff to whoever I choose. In fact, I'm
kind of hoping that the chicken processor guy will also go for this.
Then
there will be me, a white, pointedly non-religious, woman, handing chickens
over to a Amish guy, while a muslim guy says whatever prayers he says.
*That* is a picture that shows what I think America ought to be like.
Everyone working together to meet everyone's needs. I get to sell chickens,
the Amish guy gets to process chickens and the muslim guy gets to eat them.
In fact, the first time we do this, I'm going to wear a t-shirt with an
American flag on it...in your honor.
Jena
Bless you, Jena. This is such a huge country with room for all, with a
population come from every corner of the world, with a diversity of
culture and heritage beyond description ... you'd think that by now even
the most backward among us would have learned to appreciate and
celebrate that fact.
I hope you live long enough to regret that statement. You fool
Post by Graybyrd
A wise middle eastern holy man once remarked that it would be a dull
garden if all the flowers were only one size and color. The beauty of a
garden lies in its diversity.
Great.
Post by Graybyrd
Gray
--
Reply to: allen/at/graybyrd/dot/com
"Those who figure that freedom is maintained by putting a .50 caliber slug
through anyone and everyone who disagrees with their flag-waving, chest-beating
histrionic rants of patriotism will probably live to see the end of their own
freedoms while hiding behind their locked and shuttered doors, sucking the
barrel of their own shotgun." --me
Ray
2004-09-03 12:26:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
I was approached by a muslim guy who wants lambs and goats. He also
wanted
Post by JMartin
to say a prayer when the animal was slaughtered. That is all he
wanted...nothing more, despite what the official halal laws are.
My processor said ok. I found some lambs and goats. I'm thinking that
there might be a bit of miscommunication though so I want to be sure I'm
getting him what he wants.
What he wants is his arse kicking back to his own country.
He's an American. Since we are located in America, I don't see any way that
his arse could get kicked back to where it currently is.
He's an American citizen.
He did not originate from the US, none of them did.
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
And so do you for thinking of selling your produce to these perverts.
It's a free country. I'll sell my stuff to whoever I choose. In fact, I'm
kind of hoping that the chicken processor guy will also go for this. Then
there will be me, a white, pointedly non-religious, woman, handing chickens
over to a Amish guy, while a muslim guy says whatever prayers he says.
*That* is a picture that shows what I think America ought to be like.
Everyone working together to meet everyone's needs. I get to sell chickens,
the Amish guy gets to process chickens and the muslim guy gets to eat them.
In fact, the first time we do this, I'm going to wear a t-shirt with an
American flag on it...in your honor.
Jena
Post by JMartin
Have you any idea what goes on in a Halal slaughterhouse?
No and it does not apply. My regular old processor will still be my regular
old processor, processing meat in the regular old way...other than a little
prayer being said, it's business as usual.
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
What size goats do muslims generally prefer? Do they cook a whole goat
up
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
at once, or do they want it cut up like a lamb would be? I've heard
they
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
want the lamb lean, but pretty much cut like usual (maybe some slight
variations), but I'm not sure on the goats. Never sold a goat before,
but
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
I'm going to get two so I can try it.
I do have a few "pet" (read that wild) goats. IIMHO, eating a goat is
If this is how you treat your pets - God help you.
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
perfect revenge.
Jena
Larry Caldwell
2004-09-03 13:45:22 UTC
Permalink
In article <ch9nt9$6jt$***@hercules.btinternet.com>, ***@syntex.com (Ray)
says...
Post by Ray
He's an American citizen.
He did not originate from the US, none of them did.
Ah, another troll. Good job. This one actually got me to respond to
it. Actually, I wasn't paying attention and thought it was the other
Ray. Then the *real* Ray responded, and I realized his brains have not
completely squirted out his ass after all.

Well then, a troll I can deal with. 'Bye now.
--
http://home.teleport.com/~larryc
Ray Drouillard
2004-09-03 14:17:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Caldwell
says...
Post by Ray
He's an American citizen.
He did not originate from the US, none of them did.
Ah, another troll. Good job. This one actually got me to respond to
it. Actually, I wasn't paying attention and thought it was the other
Ray. Then the *real* Ray responded, and I realized his brains have not
completely squirted out his ass after all.
Well then, a troll I can deal with. 'Bye now.
--
http://home.teleport.com/~larryc
That's one of the reasons I responded. Having a relatively common name
has its downside.


Ray Drouillard
Ray
2004-09-03 15:41:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Caldwell
says...
Post by Ray
He's an American citizen.
He did not originate from the US, none of them did.
Ah, another troll. Good job. This one actually got me to respond to
it. Actually, I wasn't paying attention and thought it was the other
Ray. Then the *real* Ray responded, and I realized his brains have not
completely squirted out his ass after all.
Well then, a troll I can deal with. 'Bye now.
I'm not trolling Larry, I usually post on other NGs like tpa and aaev, I
post
as an ARA. (Don't worry I do know I'm on the wrong newsgroup and don't
intend to stay).

I appreciate that most of you guys are farmers and as such the killing of
animals is
part of your lifestyle. I don't agree with it, but at the same time I am on
your
newsgroup and that alone dictates that I should show a little respect.

I have two reasons for stating my racist comments.

(1) It can take a hell of a long time for an animal to die using either the
Halal or Kosher method of killing. During this time the animal is suffering
considerable
pain. Do you approve of of this Larry? Remember this 'torture' is done in
the name of
some bloody stupid religion. You can also forget about that 3sec crapola.

(2) You enjoy the wide open spaces, I also live in the country and live in
similar,
but more restricted circumstances. I'm posting from Northern England.

A fifty or so mile drive will bring me to a city called Bradford. In certain
area's
of Bradford 80% of the school kids are Muslim and same can be said for the
general population. IOW the buggers are taking over the country.

They refuse to accept our standards, they think that their language should
be
taught as a first language in our schools. They don't want to work, all they
want
is to dictate the way we live in our own country and claim welfare.

If anything gets stolen from your house or your car goes missing, dont
expect the police to call,
they will just give you a crime number for insurance purposes - end of
story.

Would you like that in your part of the country? I suspect not!

Oh, I almost forgot the constant threat of terrorism.

Earlier I mentioned 'Kosher' which is equally as barbaric as Halal. But we
have
nothing to fear from the Jews, they do not demand special rights or go
around blowing
up buildings and killing people.

So what's so special about the Muslims? And why should I be nice to them?
Elmo
2004-09-03 13:47:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
I was approached by a muslim guy who wants lambs and goats. He also
wanted
Post by JMartin
to say a prayer when the animal was slaughtered. That is all he
wanted...nothing more, despite what the official halal laws are.
My processor said ok. I found some lambs and goats. I'm thinking that
there might be a bit of miscommunication though so I want to be sure I'm
getting him what he wants.
What he wants is his arse kicking back to his own country.
He's an American. Since we are located in America, I don't see any way that
his arse could get kicked back to where it currently is.
He's an American citizen.
He did not originate from the US, none of them did.
Come to think of it, neither did any of the Christians who kicked out the
Native Americans who came from Asia.
Post by Ray
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
And so do you for thinking of selling your produce to these perverts.
It's a free country. I'll sell my stuff to whoever I choose. In fact, I'm
kind of hoping that the chicken processor guy will also go for this. Then
there will be me, a white, pointedly non-religious, woman, handing chickens
over to a Amish guy, while a muslim guy says whatever prayers he says.
*That* is a picture that shows what I think America ought to be like.
Everyone working together to meet everyone's needs. I get to sell chickens,
the Amish guy gets to process chickens and the muslim guy gets to eat them.
In fact, the first time we do this, I'm going to wear a t-shirt with an
American flag on it...in your honor.
Jena
Post by JMartin
Have you any idea what goes on in a Halal slaughterhouse?
No and it does not apply. My regular old processor will still be my regular
old processor, processing meat in the regular old way...other than a little
prayer being said, it's business as usual.
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
What size goats do muslims generally prefer? Do they cook a whole goat
up
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
at once, or do they want it cut up like a lamb would be? I've heard
they
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
want the lamb lean, but pretty much cut like usual (maybe some slight
variations), but I'm not sure on the goats. Never sold a goat before,
but
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
I'm going to get two so I can try it.
I do have a few "pet" (read that wild) goats. IIMHO, eating a goat is
If this is how you treat your pets - God help you.
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
perfect revenge.
Jena
Ray Drouillard
2004-09-03 14:16:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
I was approached by a muslim guy who wants lambs and goats. He also
wanted
Post by JMartin
to say a prayer when the animal was slaughtered. That is all he
wanted...nothing more, despite what the official halal laws are.
My processor said ok. I found some lambs and goats. I'm
thinking that
Post by Ray
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
there might be a bit of miscommunication though so I want to be
sure
Post by Ray
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
I'm
getting him what he wants.
What he wants is his arse kicking back to his own country.
He's an American. Since we are located in America, I don't see any
way
Post by Ray
Post by JMartin
that
his arse could get kicked back to where it currently is.
He's an American citizen.
He did not originate from the US, none of them did.
Unless you are an American Indian, neither did you.


Ray Drouillard
Doug Miller
2004-09-03 16:29:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by JMartin
It's a free country. I'll sell my stuff to whoever I choose. In fact, I'm
kind of hoping that the chicken processor guy will also go for this. Then
there will be me, a white, pointedly non-religious, woman, handing chickens
over to a Amish guy, while a muslim guy says whatever prayers he says.
*That* is a picture that shows what I think America ought to be like.
Everyone working together to meet everyone's needs. I get to sell chickens,
the Amish guy gets to process chickens and the muslim guy gets to eat them.
In fact, the first time we do this, I'm going to wear a t-shirt with an
American flag on it...in your honor.
Jena
<applause>

Brings to mind something I read in the Reader's Digest a few years back. Seems
that an Orthodox Jewish rabbi had emigrated from Russia to the United States
in late December. The American family he was staying with took him to dinner,
just before Christmas, at a Chinese restaurant. After the meal, along with the
fortune cookies, the waiter brought some small trinkets as Christmas gifts.
The rabbi examined his, and began to weep. As his friends asked if something
was wrong, he turned the item over to display the marking "Made in India" and
said "Where else but in America, could a Buddhist give a Jew a Christmas
present made by a Hindu?"
Fran
2004-09-04 08:32:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Doug Miller
Brings to mind something I read in the Reader's Digest a few years back. Seems
that an Orthodox Jewish rabbi had emigrated from Russia to the United States
in late December. The American family he was staying with took him to dinner,
just before Christmas, at a Chinese restaurant. After the meal, along with the
fortune cookies, the waiter brought some small trinkets as Christmas gifts.
The rabbi examined his, and began to weep. As his friends asked if something
was wrong, he turned the item over to display the marking "Made in India" and
said "Where else but in America, could a Buddhist give a Jew a Christmas
present made by a Hindu?"
A rather pointless story given that exactly the same thing could be said of
any of the first world Christian countries in Europe, Africa or the Pacific.
Doug Miller
2004-09-07 13:29:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Doug Miller
Post by Doug Miller
Brings to mind something I read in the Reader's Digest a few years back.
Seems
Post by Doug Miller
that an Orthodox Jewish rabbi had emigrated from Russia to the United
States
Post by Doug Miller
in late December. The American family he was staying with took him to
dinner,
Post by Doug Miller
just before Christmas, at a Chinese restaurant. After the meal, along with
the
Post by Doug Miller
fortune cookies, the waiter brought some small trinkets as Christmas
gifts.
Post by Doug Miller
The rabbi examined his, and began to weep. As his friends asked if
something
Post by Doug Miller
was wrong, he turned the item over to display the marking "Made in India"
and
Post by Doug Miller
said "Where else but in America, could a Buddhist give a Jew a Christmas
present made by a Hindu?"
A rather pointless story given that exactly the same thing could be said of
any of the first world Christian countries in Europe, Africa or the Pacific.
Oh, bullshit, that sort of thing is *far* more likely to happen in the USA
than anywhere else in the world.
Janet Baraclough..
2004-09-07 16:56:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Doug Miller
Post by Fran
Post by Doug Miller
said "Where else but in America, could a Buddhist give a Jew a Christmas
present made by a Hindu?"
A rather pointless story given that exactly the same thing could be said of
any of the first world Christian countries in Europe, Africa or the Pacific.
Oh, bullshit, that sort of thing is *far* more likely to happen in the USA
than anywhere else in the world.
Whyever do you think that Doug?

Janet
Ray Drouillard
2004-09-07 20:21:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Doug Miller
Post by Fran
Post by Doug Miller
said "Where else but in America, could a Buddhist give a Jew a Christmas
present made by a Hindu?"
A rather pointless story given that exactly the same thing could be said of
any of the first world Christian countries in Europe, Africa or the Pacific.
Oh, bullshit, that sort of thing is *far* more likely to happen in the USA
than anywhere else in the world.
Whyever do you think that Doug?
Janet
Largely because the USA is host to a very wide variety of cultures.


Ray Drouillard
Graybyrd
2004-09-07 22:16:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Doug Miller
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Doug Miller
Post by Fran
Post by Doug Miller
said "Where else but in America, could a Buddhist give a Jew a
Christmas
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Doug Miller
Post by Fran
Post by Doug Miller
present made by a Hindu?"
A rather pointless story given that exactly the same thing could be
said of
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Doug Miller
Post by Fran
any of the first world Christian countries in Europe, Africa or the Pacific.
Oh, bullshit, that sort of thing is *far* more likely to happen in
the USA
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Doug Miller
than anywhere else in the world.
Whyever do you think that Doug?
Janet
Largely because the USA is host to a very wide variety of cultures.
Ray Drouillard
really not much more than Great Britain, tho .. also, Canada and
Australia, that I can think of. Just for discussion sake ...

Gray
--
Reply to: allen/at/graybyrd/dot/com

"Those who figure that freedom is maintained by putting a .50 caliber slug
through anyone and everyone who disagrees with their flag-waving, chest-beating
histrionic rants of patriotism will probably live to see the end of their own
freedoms while hiding behind their locked and shuttered doors, sucking the
barrel of their own shotgun." --me
G.I. Joe
2004-09-09 00:20:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graybyrd
"Those who figure that freedom is maintained by putting a .50 caliber slug
through anyone and everyone who disagrees with their flag-waving, chest-beating
histrionic rants of patriotism will probably live to see the end of their own
freedoms while hiding behind their locked and shuttered doors, sucking the
barrel of their own shotgun." --me
I need an explanation here please. As I read this quote of yours it
seems to me you are saying that those in power would have military
snipers kill whomever is considered a non-patriot? The military are
the only users of .50 caliber rifles ( They don't fire "slugs", they
fire a FMJ bullet. Snails make very poor bullets), so are they the
ones to blow their heads off or would it be the person/persons that
instructed the military to do their dirty work? And why?
Joe
Graybyrd
2004-09-09 02:26:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by G.I. Joe
Post by Graybyrd
"Those who figure that freedom is maintained by putting a .50 caliber slug
through anyone and everyone who disagrees with their flag-waving, chest-beating
histrionic rants of patriotism will probably live to see the end of their own
freedoms while hiding behind their locked and shuttered doors, sucking the
barrel of their own shotgun." --me
I need an explanation here please. As I read this quote of yours it
seems to me you are saying that those in power would have military
snipers kill whomever is considered a non-patriot? The military are
the only users of .50 caliber rifles ( They don't fire "slugs", they
fire a FMJ bullet. Snails make very poor bullets), so are they the
ones to blow their heads off or would it be the person/persons that
instructed the military to do their dirty work? And why?
Joe
Whatever ...

Peace
--
Reply to: allen/at/graybyrd/dot/com

"Those who figure that freedom is maintained by putting a .50 caliber slug
through anyone and everyone who disagrees with their flag-waving, chest-beating
histrionic rants of patriotism will probably live to see the end of their own
freedoms while hiding behind their locked and shuttered doors, sucking the
barrel of their own shotgun." --me
AL
2004-09-09 03:01:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by G.I. Joe
Post by Graybyrd
"Those who figure that freedom is maintained by putting a .50 caliber slug
through anyone and everyone who disagrees with their flag-waving, chest-beating
histrionic rants of patriotism will probably live to see the end of their own
freedoms while hiding behind their locked and shuttered doors, sucking the
barrel of their own shotgun." --me
I need an explanation here please. As I read this quote of yours it
seems to me you are saying that those in power would have military
snipers kill whomever is considered a non-patriot? The military are
the only users of .50 caliber rifles
He didn't say "rifle"



AL
Ray Drouillard
2004-09-09 03:49:18 UTC
Permalink
"G.I. Joe" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

[...]
Post by G.I. Joe
The military are
the only users of .50 caliber rifles
Not true. I know a few civilians who own .50 caliber rifles. In fact,
I know a few who own .50 caliber handguns -- like the Desert Eagle.


Ray Drouillard
Offbreed
2004-09-09 03:22:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by G.I. Joe
I need an explanation here please. As I read this quote of yours it
seems to me you are saying that those in power would have military
snipers kill whomever is considered a non-patriot? The military are
the only users of .50 caliber rifles
The .50 BMG rifle is a civilian rifle that the military has only
recently adopted.
Post by G.I. Joe
( They don't fire "slugs", they
fire a FMJ bullet. Snails make very poor bullets), so are they the
ones to blow their heads off or would it be the person/persons that
instructed the military to do their dirty work? And why?
You don't know much about firearms if you don't know that bullets are
also called "slugs".
Fran
2004-09-08 12:13:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Doug Miller
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Doug Miller
Post by Fran
Post by Doug Miller
said "Where else but in America, could a Buddhist give a Jew a
Christmas
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Doug Miller
Post by Fran
Post by Doug Miller
present made by a Hindu?"
A rather pointless story given that exactly the same thing could be
said of
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Doug Miller
Post by Fran
any of the first world Christian countries in Europe, Africa or the Pacific.
Oh, bullshit, that sort of thing is *far* more likely to happen in
the USA
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Doug Miller
than anywhere else in the world.
Whyever do you think that Doug?
Largely because the USA is host to a very wide variety of cultures.
This guy really is a troll. Probably JB in a different dumbed down guise.
Ray Drouillard
2004-09-08 13:21:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fran
Post by Doug Miller
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Doug Miller
Post by Fran
Post by Doug Miller
said "Where else but in America, could a Buddhist give a Jew a
Christmas
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Doug Miller
Post by Fran
Post by Doug Miller
present made by a Hindu?"
A rather pointless story given that exactly the same thing could be
said of
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Doug Miller
Post by Fran
any of the first world Christian countries in Europe, Africa or
the
Post by Fran
Post by Doug Miller
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Doug Miller
Post by Fran
Pacific.
Oh, bullshit, that sort of thing is *far* more likely to happen in
the USA
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Doug Miller
than anywhere else in the world.
Whyever do you think that Doug?
Largely because the USA is host to a very wide variety of cultures.
This guy really is a troll. Probably JB in a different dumbed down guise.
Fran,

I was going to say that I don't know why it is that you dislike me so
much. I think I understand, though.

You have a problem with anyone who disagrees with you -- even if the
person disagrees politely and never insults you or calls you names..

A troll just raises rabble for the sake of raising rabble. The opinions
I express are truly my opinions. I don't doubt that your opinions are
heart-felt. Neither do I get angry at you for expressing them.

The truth is, you look for ways to disagree. I mentioned aging a
chicken in the refrigerator for a few days, and you told me that it
would putrefy. Finally, you said that a chicken should /relax/ for a
few days in the refrigerator. Someone else brought up the idea of
hanging the bird outside -- something that I don't plan to try.

I don't expect that you will ever agree with me, but can we at least
have some peace? I haven't called you names. Can you refrain from
calling me names?


Ray Drouillard
Fran
2004-09-09 10:27:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fran
Post by Fran
This guy really is a troll. Probably JB in a different dumbed down
guise.
I was going to say that I don't know why it is that you dislike me so
much. I think I understand, though.
You have a problem with anyone who disagrees with you -- even if the
person disagrees politely and never insults you or calls you names..
Not even close to understanding why I don't like you. I just think you are
a twit.

Janet Baraclough..
2004-09-08 17:35:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Doug Miller
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Doug Miller
Post by Fran
Post by Doug Miller
said "Where else but in America, could a Buddhist give a Jew a
Christmas
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Doug Miller
Post by Fran
Post by Doug Miller
present made by a Hindu?"
A rather pointless story given that exactly the same thing could be
said of
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Doug Miller
Post by Fran
any of the first world Christian countries in Europe, Africa or the Pacific.
Oh, bullshit, that sort of thing is *far* more likely to happen in
the USA
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Doug Miller
than anywhere else in the world.
Whyever do you think that Doug?
Janet
Largely because the USA is host to a very wide variety of cultures.
I'm sure it is; what's surprising is that you and Doug seem to think
that America is unique in that way. It isn't.

Janet.
Ray Drouillard
2004-09-08 18:10:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Doug Miller
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Doug Miller
Post by Fran
Post by Doug Miller
said "Where else but in America, could a Buddhist give a Jew a
Christmas
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Doug Miller
Post by Fran
Post by Doug Miller
present made by a Hindu?"
A rather pointless story given that exactly the same thing could be
said of
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Doug Miller
Post by Fran
any of the first world Christian countries in Europe, Africa or
the
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Doug Miller
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Doug Miller
Post by Fran
Pacific.
Oh, bullshit, that sort of thing is *far* more likely to happen in
the USA
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Doug Miller
than anywhere else in the world.
Whyever do you think that Doug?
Janet
Largely because the USA is host to a very wide variety of cultures.
I'm sure it is; what's surprising is that you and Doug seem to think
that America is unique in that way. It isn't.
Janet.
Admittedly, the only other countries I have personally visited are
Germany, Mexico, and Canada.

Canada is every bit as diverse as the US -- for exactly the same
reasons. Mexico is diverse in the tourist areas. In the area of
Germany where I lived (Frankfurt AM), there were the Germans, the
American military, and some Turks. Of course, that may have changed in
the past twenty years or so. In any case, I enjoyed living there --
except for the fact that I was in the city.


Ray Drouillard
Doug Miller
2004-09-08 18:21:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet Baraclough..
I'm sure it is; what's surprising is that you and Doug seem to think
that America is unique in that way. It isn't.
Not unique, but to a greater degree than anywhere else.
Fran
2004-09-08 12:17:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Doug Miller
Post by Doug Miller
Post by Doug Miller
Brings to mind something I read in the Reader's Digest a few years back.
Seems
Post by Doug Miller
that an Orthodox Jewish rabbi had emigrated from Russia to the United
States
Post by Doug Miller
in late December. The American family he was staying with took him to
dinner,
Post by Doug Miller
just before Christmas, at a Chinese restaurant. After the meal, along with
the
Post by Doug Miller
fortune cookies, the waiter brought some small trinkets as Christmas
gifts.
Post by Doug Miller
The rabbi examined his, and began to weep. As his friends asked if
something
Post by Doug Miller
was wrong, he turned the item over to display the marking "Made in India"
and
Post by Doug Miller
said "Where else but in America, could a Buddhist give a Jew a Christmas
present made by a Hindu?"
A rather pointless story given that exactly the same thing could be said of
any of the first world Christian countries in Europe, Africa or the Pacific.
Oh, bullshit, that sort of thing is *far* more likely to happen in the USA
than anywhere else in the world.
And just why would you think that such a thing is more likely to happen in
the USA Doug?

Christmas happens in all Christian countries, Jews or various descriptions
seem to happily live in all Christian countries (and even have a large
population in India), Chinese Restaurants are common in all countries it
seems, Indian exports can be bought in any country, Russia has probably
(these days) taken over from Ireland as one of the world's exporter of
people to all parts of the globe although I suspect the range of Russian
sects would be a little more varied than old Irelands.

Just what do you think would make the US such a rarity for this sort of
experience to be so remarkable?
Doug Miller
2004-09-08 16:02:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fran
Just what do you think would make the US such a rarity for this sort of
experience to be so remarkable?
Greater ethnic and cultural variety here than anywhere else. That's all. I
never said there's no variety in other countries, just that there's more here.
Offbreed
2004-09-09 04:45:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fran
A rather pointless story given that exactly the same thing could be said of
any of the first world Christian countries in Europe, Africa or the Pacific.
IIRC, the story dates from just after WWII, when that sort of thing was
a little less certain.
Ray Drouillard
2004-09-03 03:08:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
I was approached by a muslim guy who wants lambs and goats. He also
wanted
Post by JMartin
to say a prayer when the animal was slaughtered. That is all he
wanted...nothing more, despite what the official halal laws are.
My processor said ok. I found some lambs and goats. I'm thinking that
there might be a bit of miscommunication though so I want to be sure I'm
getting him what he wants.
What he wants is his arse kicking back to his own country.
And so do you for thinking of selling your produce to these perverts.
Have you any idea what goes on in a Halal slaughterhouse?
Post by JMartin
What size goats do muslims generally prefer? Do they cook a whole goat up
at once, or do they want it cut up like a lamb would be? I've heard they
want the lamb lean, but pretty much cut like usual (maybe some slight
variations), but I'm not sure on the goats. Never sold a goat before, but
I'm going to get two so I can try it.
I do have a few "pet" (read that wild) goats. IIMHO, eating a goat is
perfect revenge.
Jena
I don't know where you get the 'pervert' idea, but...

Halal and Kosher slaughter are both quick, humane, and effective at
getting the meat well bled. I'm not very impressed with what goes on in
a standard ag-biz slaughter house, but I'll eat Kosher meat any day. In
fact, I plan on doing in our chickens by slitting their throats. It
sure beats using the axe -- and half missing.


Ray Drouillard
Ray
2004-09-03 12:40:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
I was approached by a muslim guy who wants lambs and goats. He also
wanted
Post by JMartin
to say a prayer when the animal was slaughtered. That is all he
wanted...nothing more, despite what the official halal laws are.
My processor said ok. I found some lambs and goats. I'm thinking
that
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
there might be a bit of miscommunication though so I want to be sure
I'm
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
getting him what he wants.
What he wants is his arse kicking back to his own country.
And so do you for thinking of selling your produce to these perverts.
Have you any idea what goes on in a Halal slaughterhouse?
Post by JMartin
What size goats do muslims generally prefer? Do they cook a whole
goat up
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
at once, or do they want it cut up like a lamb would be? I've heard
they
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
want the lamb lean, but pretty much cut like usual (maybe some
slight
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
variations), but I'm not sure on the goats. Never sold a goat
before, but
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
I'm going to get two so I can try it.
I do have a few "pet" (read that wild) goats. IIMHO, eating a goat
is
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
perfect revenge.
Jena
I don't know where you get the 'pervert' idea, but...
Halal and Kosher slaughter are both quick, humane, and effective at
getting the meat well bled. I'm not very impressed with what goes on in
a standard ag-biz slaughter house, but I'll eat Kosher meat any day. In
fact, I plan on doing in our chickens by slitting their throats. It
sure beats using the axe -- and half missing.
What a load of crapola.
Post by JMartin
Ray Drouillard
I do not have a remailer so I can't respond fully to your posting.
You would report me to my ISP for abuse.
Larry Caldwell
2004-09-03 13:38:08 UTC
Permalink
In article <ch8cvi$k5j$***@titan.btinternet.com>, ***@syntex.com (Ray)
says...
Post by Ray
What he wants is his arse kicking back to his own country.
Sleep through civics class, did we? In America we don't have a state
religion. He can be anything he wants.
--
http://home.teleport.com/~larryc
Elmo
2004-09-03 13:45:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
I was approached by a muslim guy who wants lambs and goats. He also
wanted
Post by JMartin
to say a prayer when the animal was slaughtered. That is all he
wanted...nothing more, despite what the official halal laws are.
My processor said ok. I found some lambs and goats. I'm thinking that
there might be a bit of miscommunication though so I want to be sure I'm
getting him what he wants.
What he wants is his arse kicking back to his own country.
What makes you think a Muslim can't be a native born American?
Post by JMartin
And so do you for thinking of selling your produce to these perverts.
Have you any idea what goes on in a Halal slaughterhouse?
Post by JMartin
What size goats do muslims generally prefer? Do they cook a whole goat up
at once, or do they want it cut up like a lamb would be? I've heard they
want the lamb lean, but pretty much cut like usual (maybe some slight
variations), but I'm not sure on the goats. Never sold a goat before, but
I'm going to get two so I can try it.
I do have a few "pet" (read that wild) goats. IIMHO, eating a goat is
perfect revenge.
Jena
Ray
2004-09-03 17:36:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elmo
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
I was approached by a muslim guy who wants lambs and goats. He also
wanted
Post by JMartin
to say a prayer when the animal was slaughtered. That is all he
wanted...nothing more, despite what the official halal laws are.
My processor said ok. I found some lambs and goats. I'm thinking that
there might be a bit of miscommunication though so I want to be sure I'm
getting him what he wants.
What he wants is his arse kicking back to his own country.
What makes you think a Muslim can't be a native born American?
I credit Americans with a little more sense.
Post by Elmo
Post by JMartin
And so do you for thinking of selling your produce to these perverts.
Have you any idea what goes on in a Halal slaughterhouse?
Post by JMartin
What size goats do muslims generally prefer? Do they cook a whole goat up
at once, or do they want it cut up like a lamb would be? I've heard they
want the lamb lean, but pretty much cut like usual (maybe some slight
variations), but I'm not sure on the goats. Never sold a goat before, but
I'm going to get two so I can try it.
I do have a few "pet" (read that wild) goats. IIMHO, eating a goat is
perfect revenge.
Jena
Michael
2004-09-03 18:27:41 UTC
Permalink
"Ray" <***@syntex.com> wrote in message news:chaa3b$ut$***@titan.btinternet.com...

Doing a little slumming w/ the farmers? How you been Ray? Guys be nice to
Ray, he's one of the best of the ARA's. Must be slow over on the vegetarian
ng but you're welcome here. Just don't bring back Jonnie Ball anytime soon.
Ray
2004-09-03 22:48:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Doing a little slumming w/ the farmers? How you been Ray? Guys be nice to
Ray, he's one of the best of the ARA's. Must be slow over on the vegetarian
ng but you're welcome here. Just don't bring back Jonnie Ball anytime soon.
Jonnie who?
He's in jail - Gross indecency with a garden gnome.



Hiya Michael,
Nice to hear from you again, must be a couple or three years now.
Bet you still have that BMW?

No I didn't come over with the intention of upseting anyone, but I may have
made the odd
remark out of place. I picked up on a posting about Muslims and things just
got a little
out of hand, you know how it is. The great thing about this group is that
everyone tries
to help each other, there is little abuse, it's just one big family - such a
change for me.

I live in the country and have many farming friends, so I try to keep my
views in perspective,
but I can't abide the wretched cruelty involved in all that Halal/Kosher
killing. Talking of
farming, the UK grain farmers are in deep crap.
We have had so much rain, all the corn etc is completely flat and turning
brown, so they
have no option other than ploughing it back in. Many grain farmers will be
in serious financial
trouble in the next few weeks.
This is not just a local issue, it's nationwide and strangely, it has
received little coverage in the media.

One other thing I have picked up from the group is the price of property in
the US countryside.
(Ray), is trying to sell a house with a fair bit of land for $117,000. If
that house and land was
for sale in the UK, he could put it on the market tomorrow for $117,000 and
multiply it by a factor of
4 and still be buying everyone drinks by Sunday morning. Property prices
here are just plain stupid.

I retire in four years and don't really want to stay in the UK, so
considering the silly prices you ask for
property combined with the exchange rate we are thinking living in the US.

Only one thing, do you accept Limey refugees with an attitude problem:-)

Very kind of you to respond Michael, my best wishes to you and your family.

Ray Slater
enigma
2004-09-04 13:12:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray
One other thing I have picked up from the group is the
price of property in the US countryside.
(Ray), is trying to sell a house with a fair bit of land
for $117,000. If that house and land was
for sale in the UK, he could put it on the market tomorrow
for $117,000 and multiply it by a factor of
4 and still be buying everyone drinks by Sunday morning.
Property prices here are just plain stupid.
well, property prices over here range from obscenely stupid
to amazingly cheap... just depends where you are in the
country & what you are looking for.
currently, i'm in NH. i have 62 acres, of which 20 acres is
wetlands. my house was built in 1815 & has 3 bedrooms & 2
bathrooms. current market values say i can sell for between US
$700,000-$900,00. of course this is because developers will
buy the property & slap in a 7-10 house subdivision (claiming
the 20 acres of wetland as the 'common area' required by the
town).
i can move to upstate NY & purchase 100+ acres of good
farmland & a 4 bedroom, 2 bath house, with outbuildings
(barns, etc) for under US$300,000. i could move further west &
buy my ex-boss's family farm in North Dakota, 600+ acres,
hose, barns, etc for under US$200,000... however, we have
family in upstate NY (but not close enough to where we plan to
move that they will be dropping round frequently <g>), so that
seems the reasonable area to choose *for us*.
Post by Ray
I retire in four years and don't really want to stay in the
UK, so considering the silly prices you ask for
property combined with the exchange rate we are thinking
living in the US.
we were considering moving to the UK, but the exchange rate
was the deal killer... well, that & llama quarantine :p
Post by Ray
Only one thing, do you accept Limey refugees with an
attitude problem:-)
everyone has *some* sort of attitude problem. most of us
would prefer you can the racism though.
lee
Ray
2004-09-05 23:53:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by enigma
Post by Ray
One other thing I have picked up from the group is the
price of property in the US countryside.
(Ray), is trying to sell a house with a fair bit of land
for $117,000. If that house and land was
for sale in the UK, he could put it on the market tomorrow
for $117,000 and multiply it by a factor of
4 and still be buying everyone drinks by Sunday morning.
Property prices here are just plain stupid.
well, property prices over here range from obscenely stupid
to amazingly cheap... just depends where you are in the
country & what you are looking for.
currently, i'm in NH. i have 62 acres, of which 20 acres is
wetlands. my house was built in 1815 & has 3 bedrooms & 2
bathrooms. current market values say i can sell for between US
$700,000-$900,00. of course this is because developers will
buy the property & slap in a 7-10 house subdivision (claiming
the 20 acres of wetland as the 'common area' required by the
town).
i can move to upstate NY & purchase 100+ acres of good
farmland & a 4 bedroom, 2 bath house, with outbuildings
(barns, etc) for under US$300,000. i could move further west &
buy my ex-boss's family farm in North Dakota, 600+ acres,
hose, barns, etc for under US$200,000... however, we have
family in upstate NY (but not close enough to where we plan to
move that they will be dropping round frequently <g>), so that
seems the reasonable area to choose *for us*.
Post by Ray
I retire in four years and don't really want to stay in the
UK, so considering the silly prices you ask for
property combined with the exchange rate we are thinking
living in the US.
we were considering moving to the UK, but the exchange rate
was the deal killer... well, that & llama quarantine :p
I live close to the city of York, which is a big attraction for US tourists,
owing to the exchange rate I think the American tourist market is down by
around 75% this year.

Then there is the price of gas. I've just done a quick conversion, we are
presently charged around 82pence per litre.
That equates to a price of around $7:16 for a US gallon!! Rough calculation
allow a few cents either way.
We can't blame the middle east for that, most of it is tax. How's that grab
Ya?
Post by enigma
Post by Ray
Only one thing, do you accept Limey refugees with an
attitude problem:-)
everyone has *some* sort of attitude problem. most of us
would prefer you can the racism though.
lee
Cheers lee, thanks for the interesting infomation.
I'll bear the last remark in mind:-)

Thanks for posting

Ray S.
Susan (CobbersMom)
2004-09-04 01:59:59 UTC
Permalink
"Elmo" <> wrote in message
Post by Elmo
What makes you think a Muslim can't be a native born American?
"Ray" <> wrote in message >
I credit Americans with a little more sense.
With Ray, of course, being the exception.....
Sue
Northern Wisconsin
Envision Whirled Peas
Jim Elbrecht
2004-09-04 11:08:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Susan (CobbersMom)
"Elmo" <> wrote in message
Post by Elmo
What makes you think a Muslim can't be a native born American?
"Ray" <> wrote in message >
I credit Americans with a little more sense.
With Ray, of course, being the exception.....
Sue
I quote from the racist Ray's [<***@syntex.com>] post- Message ID
<cha3bm$47f$***@sparta.btinternet.com> ;
"I'm posting from Northern England."

His use of 'arse' made me think he was from across the pond.

That's not to say that we don't have some equally ignorant SOBs over
here-- but I don't think this one is ours.

Jim
Susan (CobbersMom)
2004-09-05 04:08:28 UTC
Permalink
"Jim Elbrecht" <> wrote in message > I quote from the racist Ray's
Post by Jim Elbrecht
"I'm posting from Northern England."
His use of 'arse' made me think he was from across the pond.
That's not to say that we don't have some equally ignorant SOBs over>
here-- but I don't think this one is ours.


You're right. I read that post after I posted my reply. Let's just hope he
stays put.
Sue
Northern Wisconsin
Envision Whirled Peas
Gene
2004-09-03 13:58:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
I was approached by a muslim guy who wants lambs and goats. He also
wanted
Post by JMartin
to say a prayer when the animal was slaughtered. That is all he
wanted...nothing more, despite what the official halal laws are.
My processor said ok. I found some lambs and goats. I'm thinking that
there might be a bit of miscommunication though so I want to be sure I'm
getting him what he wants.
What he wants is his arse kicking back to his own country.
And so do you for thinking of selling your produce to these perverts.
Have you any idea what goes on in a Halal slaughterhouse?
Ray, I really don't know what someone did to piss you off about
other cultures, but whatever it was, there's no reaosn to be so angry.

Those that did the dastardly deeds, are dead, those that follow will
die. They have accepted a way of life which has little future. I'd lay
good money that should you bring one of them to the US, show them the
REAL US and they'd more then likely, change their hearts and minds.

The mind is like a parachute, it only works when open.
Ray
2004-09-03 17:49:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gene
Post by JMartin
Post by JMartin
I was approached by a muslim guy who wants lambs and goats. He also
wanted
Post by JMartin
to say a prayer when the animal was slaughtered. That is all he
wanted...nothing more, despite what the official halal laws are.
My processor said ok. I found some lambs and goats. I'm thinking that
there might be a bit of miscommunication though so I want to be sure I'm
getting him what he wants.
What he wants is his arse kicking back to his own country.
And so do you for thinking of selling your produce to these perverts.
Have you any idea what goes on in a Halal slaughterhouse?
Ray, I really don't know what someone did to piss you off about
other cultures, but whatever it was, there's no reaosn to be so angry.
Those that did the dastardly deeds, are dead, those that follow will
die. They have accepted a way of life which has little future. I'd lay
good money that should you bring one of them to the US, show them the
REAL US and they'd more then likely, change their hearts and minds.
The mind is like a parachute, it only works when open.
I'm not angry Gene, just stating facts that are considered to be not
politically correct.
I don't know what the situation is in the US, but our own BBC have to be
very
careful when reporting anything which concerns Muslims.

Almost every news item which does mention the Muslim faith is bad.
That should tell us something!
Steve IA
2004-09-03 18:22:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray
Almost every news item which does mention the Muslim faith is bad.
That should tell us something!
It tells us that news items are, by definition, news, and sensational
news sells and bad news is sensational. i.e. Almost every news item
which mentions R.C. priests concerns their sexual proclivities. That
should tell us something! Judgement by news reporting is, uh how can I
put this delicately, stupid.
Steve
southiowa
Elmo
2004-09-03 18:41:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve IA
Post by Ray
Almost every news item which does mention the Muslim faith is bad.
That should tell us something!
It tells us that news items are, by definition, news, and sensational
news sells and bad news is sensational. i.e. Almost every news item
which mentions R.C. priests concerns their sexual proclivities. That
should tell us something! Judgement by news reporting is, uh how can I
put this delicately, stupid.
You are too kind.
Post by Steve IA
Steve
southiowa
Steve IA
2004-09-03 20:12:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elmo
Post by Steve IA
Post by Ray
Almost every news item which does mention the Muslim faith is bad.
That should tell us something!
It tells us that news items are, by definition, news, and sensational
news sells and bad news is sensational. i.e. Almost every news item
which mentions R.C. priests concerns their sexual proclivities. That
should tell us something! Judgement by news reporting is, uh how can I
put this delicately, stupid.
You are too kind.
Post by Steve IA
Steve
southiowa
And you are too gracious.

Steve
southiowa
Ray
2004-09-04 10:33:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve IA
Post by Elmo
Post by Steve IA
Post by Ray
Almost every news item which does mention the Muslim faith is bad.
That should tell us something!
It tells us that news items are, by definition, news, and sensational
news sells and bad news is sensational. i.e. Almost every news item
which mentions R.C. priests concerns their sexual proclivities. That
should tell us something! Judgement by news reporting is, uh how can I
put this delicately, stupid.
You are too kind.
Post by Steve IA
Steve
southiowa
And you are too gracious.
Steve
southiowa
Go on gents - give it to be straight, both barrels.

Ray S
Gene
2004-09-04 04:26:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray
I'm not angry Gene, just stating facts that are considered to be not
politically correct. I don't know what the situation is in the US, but our own BBC have to be
very careful when reporting anything which concerns Muslims.
Really? I wouldn't know that and there's been little reporting here
about muslims except for the raids and arrests for "Possibly
Supporting" the terrorists.

But why should we kick them back to their own country? They SEE what
"Freedom" is and why we do defend it so visciously...Yes, to the point
of looking stupid, but I'd rather look stupid and able to voice my
opinion, then be safe warm and silent.

As for calling them "Perverts" what facts do you have to sustain
that accusation?
Post by Ray
Almost every news item which does mention the Muslim faith is bad.
That should tell us something!
No, it's the people. Yes, in some sections, I believe there's some
passages which are kind of questionable, but this is up to the person.

I believe it was Malcom X who said (After converting to Muslim
faith) that he realized we are all one group and should work together
and not try and divide more then what was already done.
Janet Baraclough..
2004-09-04 13:47:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray
I'm not angry Gene, just stating facts that are considered to be not
politically correct. I don't know what the situation is in the US,
but our own BBC have to be
very careful when reporting anything which concerns Muslims.
Or Japanese people, or Quakers. In Britain it's a criminal offence for
any individual or organisation to publically "promote or incite racial
or religious hatred". Ray would do well to bear that in mind.
Post by Ray
Almost every news item which does mention the Muslim faith is bad.
If you are talking about news items in the UK media, that is patently
untrue.
Post by Ray
That should tell us something!
It tells us you're lying.

Janet.(Scotland).
AL
2004-09-05 03:27:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Ray
I'm not angry Gene, just stating facts that are considered to be not
politically correct. I don't know what the situation is in the US,
but our own BBC have to be
very careful when reporting anything which concerns Muslims.
Or Japanese people, or Quakers. In Britain it's a criminal offence for
any individual or organisation to publically "promote or incite racial
or religious hatred". <snip>
Janet.(Scotland).
And it would appear that in the not too distant future we citizens of
the US will also be deprived of our freedom of speech on even broader
issues than race or religion.

AL
Ray
2004-09-06 00:08:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Ray
I'm not angry Gene, just stating facts that are considered to be not
politically correct. I don't know what the situation is in the US,
but our own BBC have to be
very careful when reporting anything which concerns Muslims.
Or Japanese people, or Quakers. In Britain it's a criminal offence for
any individual or organisation to publically "promote or incite racial
or religious hatred". Ray would do well to bear that in mind.
Not on 'Usenet'
But BBC message boards, that's another matter.
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Ray
Almost every news item which does mention the Muslim faith is bad.
If you are talking about news items in the UK media, that is patently
untrue.
It's not. Take a listen to "Question Time"
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Post by Ray
That should tell us something!
It tells us you're lying.
Not so, and don't confuse Quakers with Muslims.
Quakers are nice decent people, except they don't like a pint or two.
Post by Janet Baraclough..
Janet.(Scotland).
Roy
2004-09-03 11:54:02 UTC
Permalink
First off you need to feed the goats a good heavy ration of swine
feed, and then feed them some good old pork skins for desert, which
would bring out so much more flavor to the goat when those ragheads
get it...........

Personally I think you need to tell em to take a hike and visit
McDonalds and buy a big mac or go visit the local pork BBQ place to
fill up on food before they make a long swim back to the land of the
mulahs's.......
Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wife,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.
Father Ted Crilly <me#myhouse.org@>
2004-09-03 13:42:20 UTC
Permalink
After that add a large amount of rat poison.
Post by Roy
First off you need to feed the goats a good heavy ration of swine
feed, and then feed them some good old pork skins for desert, which
would bring out so much more flavor to the goat when those ragheads
get it...........
Personally I think you need to tell em to take a hike and visit
McDonalds and buy a big mac or go visit the local pork BBQ place to
fill up on food before they make a long swim back to the land of the
mulahs's.......
Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wife,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.
Ray
2004-09-03 14:35:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Father Ted Crilly <me#myhouse.org@>
After that add a large amount of rat poison.
Now you're talking!
Post by Father Ted Crilly <me#myhouse.org@>
Post by Roy
First off you need to feed the goats a good heavy ration of swine
feed, and then feed them some good old pork skins for desert, which
would bring out so much more flavor to the goat when those ragheads
get it...........
Personally I think you need to tell em to take a hike and visit
McDonalds and buy a big mac or go visit the local pork BBQ place to
fill up on food before they make a long swim back to the land of the
mulahs's.......
Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wife,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.
Roy
2004-09-03 19:19:20 UTC
Permalink
Hell, just them knowing that they ate swine in some form or fashion
or had anything to do with swine would be enough to drive them over
the hill.........

During Desert Storm and on a few deployments to the desert afterwards
we often smuggled in pork skins and vienna sausages..........Those
mulahs would have a fit if they knew what we did..........I looked at
it as a form of payback in a mild sort of way.........
===<>
===<>> After that add a large amount of rat poison.
===<>Now you're talking!
===<>>
===<>>
===<>>
===<>>>First off you need to feed the goats a good heavy ration of swine
===<>>>feed, and then feed them some good old pork skins for desert, which
===<>>>would bring out so much more flavor to the goat when those ragheads
===<>>>get it...........
===<>>>
===<>>>Personally I think you need to tell em to take a hike and visit
===<>>>McDonalds and buy a big mac or go visit the local pork BBQ place to
===<>>>fill up on food before they make a long swim back to the land of the
===<>>>mulahs's.......
===<>>>Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
===<>>>Opinions expressed are those of my wife,
===<>>>I had no input whatsoever.
===<>>>Remove "nospam" from email addy.
===<>>
===<>
Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wife,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.
Ray
2004-09-03 14:31:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roy
First off you need to feed the goats a good heavy ration of swine
feed, and then feed them some good old pork skins for desert, which
would bring out so much more flavor to the goat when those ragheads
get it...........
Personally I think you need to tell em to take a hike and visit
McDonalds and buy a big mac or go visit the local pork BBQ place to
fill up on food before they make a long swim back to the land of the
mulahs's.......
Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wife,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.
Roy,

Your wife is a very well informed lady:-)
o***@gamera.syr.edu
2004-09-03 18:42:37 UTC
Permalink
Jena,

I'll summarize the many followups to your question: No one knows

However, if you'd like to see a small sample of the effect Bush has had on
this country (in "only" 4 years!), read on.

Just trying to be helpful,
Bob
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