Discussion:
Drip irrigation
(too old to reply)
v***@tucklings.com
2007-04-28 01:15:16 UTC
Permalink
A few days ago, I posted an inquiry about this and harvested some
useful links thanks to a poster.

I have designed what I hope to be a viable system to drip irrigate a
100' by 100' garden. The garden will be intercropped with corn,
beans, squash, and watermelons.

The corn and beans will be planted together in the same alternating
mound. Mounds of squash or watermelons will be intercropped between
the corn/bean mounds.

My question has to do with where to place the soaker hoses. It would
seem to make sense to lay the hoses (13 of 'em) in the furrows between
the 8 foot rows.

Can I presume that the plants' roots will "seek" the water? Under
this scheme, since there will be a hose in each of 13 furrows, each of
the twelve rows, each 8' x 100', will have two sources of dripped
irrigation.

The other alternative is to place the hoses exactly in the middle of
each row. But under that scenario the soaker hoses would be on top of
the ground. The idea of having 'em embedded in the furrows seems to
make more sense.

But I'm not a corn plant. Can anybody share some real life
experience??

Last night I read that soaker hoses work best if you don't run 'em
more than 50 feet. So the plan calls for a "manifold pipe". Every 8
feet along the 100' manifold there will be two side-by-side water
faucets. One faucet will feed a 50' soaker hose. Right next to it, a
second faucet will feed a 50' regular hose, followed by a 50' soaker
hose. So, the 100' manifold feeder pipe will have 24 water faucets
and 24 runs of hose. The manifold pipe will be on the uphill side.
The soaker hoses will run downhill from this pressurized pipe. The
entire system will be fed from a water well. By opening faucets I
will be able to irrigate one-half (50') of a row or an entire row
(100') at a time. If water pressure allows I might be able to water
more than one row at a time. But presumably, it will not pressurize
1300 feet of soaker hose enough to deliver water throughout the garden
simultaneously.

The "soil" is gutless thin sand. I'm told that just as it is best to
fertilize "thin and often" it is also best to "water lightly and
often". Once the squash and melons carpet the ground I hope the need
for irrigation water will diminish considerably.

Constructive criticism will be genuinely appreciated.

Thanks,
Vernon
Janet Baraclough
2007-04-28 19:36:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by v***@tucklings.com
Can I presume that the plants' roots will "seek" the water? Under
this scheme, since there will be a hose in each of 13 furrows, each of
the twelve rows, each 8' x 100', will have two sources of dripped
irrigation.
Something like a tree, which has a large, extensive root system, will
"seek water". But what you are proposing is that very small seedlings
will have a span of roots capable fo finding water 4 ft away.
They won't. In a gutless sandy soil the plants will never find the
water in time. They will need some other source of watyer, until the
roots travel 4 ft to the birrigation damp in the furrow 4 ft away.
Post by v***@tucklings.com
The other alternative is to place the hoses exactly in the middle of
each row. But under that scenario the soaker hoses would be on top of
the ground. The idea of having 'em embedded in the furrows seems to
make more sense.
Except that when the drip hose is off, a small-particle soil like dry
sand will fall inside the holes and block it.When all the hoses are
buried, you won't know where the blockages are.
Post by v***@tucklings.com
The "soil" is gutless thin sand. I'm told that just as it is best to
fertilize "thin and often" it is also best to "water lightly and
often".
In a hot climate and sandy soil, surel light watering will never
really penetrate far into the beds?


Once the squash and melons carpet the ground I hope the need
Post by v***@tucklings.com
for irrigation water will diminish considerably.
Both have large leaves when mature.. Large leaves constantly transpire
water making roots work harder, so I can't see how they will need less
water in a poor sandy soil with minimal natural humus to act as a
sponge.

My advice to a complete beginner who has never gardened before, is
forget the tractor and fancy automated buried hydro technology during
the first summer season.. You need to sow some small experimental crops
in small beds which you can manage by hand by yourself, to get some
experience of reading plants in all their stages and SEE how much water
they need, and when.

Janet
Sheldon
2007-04-28 21:58:50 UTC
Permalink
FarmI
2007-04-29 07:41:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet Baraclough
Can I presume that the plants' roots will "seek" the water? Under
this scheme, since there will be a hose in each of 13 furrows, each of
the twelve rows, each 8' x 100', will have two sources of dripped
irrigation.
Something like a tree, which has a large, extensive root system, will
"seek water". But what you are proposing is that very small seedlings
will have a span of roots capable fo finding water 4 ft away.
They won't. In a gutless sandy soil the plants will never find the
water in time. They will need some other source of watyer, until the
roots travel 4 ft to the birrigation damp in the furrow 4 ft away.
Many field crops have far more extensive and deeper root systems than
trees relative to plant size... corn roots go down as far as corn
grows tall...
They don't. Corn has a fibrous root system and although extensive, they
aren't deep rooted at all.
Larry Caldwell
2007-04-29 17:34:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
They don't. Corn has a fibrous root system and although extensive, they
aren't deep rooted at all.
Plants also have a tough time penetrating any kind of hard pan or dense
layer. They need loose soil to go deep, which is why so many farmers
pull a subsoil knife through the ground.
--
For email, replace firstnamelastinitial
with my first name and last initial.
Rudy Canoza
2007-04-30 16:44:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Post by Janet Baraclough
Can I presume that the plants' roots will "seek" the water? Under
this scheme, since there will be a hose in each of 13 furrows, each of
the twelve rows, each 8' x 100', will have two sources of dripped
irrigation.
Something like a tree, which has a large, extensive root system, will
"seek water". But what you are proposing is that very small seedlings
will have a span of roots capable fo finding water 4 ft away.
They won't. In a gutless sandy soil the plants will never find the
water in time. They will need some other source of watyer, until the
roots travel 4 ft to the birrigation damp in the furrow 4 ft away.
Many field crops have far more extensive and deeper root systems than
trees relative to plant size... corn roots go down as far as corn
grows tall...
They don't. Corn has a fibrous root system and although extensive, they
aren't deep rooted at all.
As usual, fat farm pig frannie screws it up:

Corn is a relatively deep rooted crop. Typically, in
deep soils, roots grow laterally 12 to 18 inches
from the stalk and downward to a depth of 4 feet or
more. About 90 percent of the roots will be found in
the top 3 feet, which is considered the effective
rooting depth for irrigation purposes.

http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/plantsci/rowcrops/a1130-8.htm
Sheldon
2007-04-30 21:53:49 UTC
Permalink
v***@tucklings.com
2007-05-01 02:37:03 UTC
Permalink
Can I presume that the plants' roots will "seek" the water? Under
this scheme, since there will be a hose in each of 13 furrows, each of
the twelve rows, each 8' x 100', will have two sources of dripped
irrigation.
?Something like a tree, which has a large, extensive root system, will
"seek water". But what you are proposing is that very small seedlings
will have a span of roots capable fo finding water 4 ft away.
They won't. In a gutless sandy soil the plants will never find the
water in time. They will need some other source of watyer, until the
roots travel 4 ft to the birrigation damp in the furrow 4 ft away.
Many field crops have far more extensive and deeper root systems than
trees relative to plant size... corn roots go down as far as corn
grows tall...
They don't. ?Corn has a fibrous root system and although extensive, they
aren't deep rooted at all.
? ? Corn is a relatively deep rooted crop. Typically, in
? ? deep soils, roots grow laterally 12 to 18 inches
? ? from the stalk and downward to a depth of 4 feet or
? ? more. About 90 percent of the roots will be found in
? ? the top 3 feet, which is considered the effective
? ? rooting depth for irrigation purposes.
http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/plantsci/rowcrops/a1130-8.htm
I knew that, but you don't wrassle with pigs unless you want to get
all muddy and smelly.
Thanks.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Howdy folks. Thanks to each respondent for your reply.

We have gone back to the drawing board and re-designed the supply
manifold to have double soaker hoses every four feet, each controlled
by a faucet. So we will be able to deliver water to the center of the
rows (seedling line) AND to the furrows. We might even get it
installed this weekend. We're way behind schedule because my wife got
hit by a double whammy. First she trashed her knee then had to have
appendix surgery. Meanwhile our son has taken up the slack and has
nearly completed the feeder manifold. It will have FIFTY TWO separate
supply lines. We should be able to deliver moisture to every corner
of the 100' x 100' plot.

V
Goedjn
2007-05-01 14:43:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by v***@tucklings.com
Can I presume that the plants' roots will "seek" the water? Under
this scheme, since there will be a hose in each of 13 furrows, each of
the twelve rows, each 8' x 100', will have two sources of dripped
irrigation.
?Something like a tree, which has a large, extensive root system, will
"seek water". But what you are proposing is that very small seedlings
will have a span of roots capable fo finding water 4 ft away.
They won't. In a gutless sandy soil the plants will never find the
water in time. They will need some other source of watyer, until the
roots travel 4 ft to the birrigation damp in the furrow 4 ft away.
Many field crops have far more extensive and deeper root systems than
trees relative to plant size... corn roots go down as far as corn
grows tall...
They don't. ?Corn has a fibrous root system and although extensive, they
aren't deep rooted at all.
? ? Corn is a relatively deep rooted crop. Typically, in
? ? deep soils, roots grow laterally 12 to 18 inches
? ? from the stalk and downward to a depth of 4 feet or
? ? more. About 90 percent of the roots will be found in
? ? the top 3 feet, which is considered the effective
? ? rooting depth for irrigation purposes.
http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/plantsci/rowcrops/a1130-8.htm
I knew that, but you don't wrassle with pigs unless you want to get
all muddy and smelly.
Thanks.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Howdy folks. Thanks to each respondent for your reply.
We have gone back to the drawing board and re-designed the supply
manifold to have double soaker hoses every four feet, each controlled
by a faucet. So we will be able to deliver water to the center of the
rows (seedling line) AND to the furrows. We might even get it
installed this weekend. We're way behind schedule because my wife got
hit by a double whammy. First she trashed her knee then had to have
appendix surgery. Meanwhile our son has taken up the slack and has
nearly completed the feeder manifold. It will have FIFTY TWO separate
supply lines. We should be able to deliver moisture to every corner
of the 100' x 100' plot.
Apparently that varies by the variety. The stuff I've grown
down east (mostly butter&sugar and Silver Queen) has a root
ball thats about a double handfull. They probably send tendrils
farther than that, but 4'? I don't think so.

I still recommend not watering the troughs. All you're doing
is helping the weeds.
FarmI
2007-05-01 07:13:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Janet Baraclough
Can I presume that the plants' roots will "seek" the water? Under
this scheme, since there will be a hose in each of 13 furrows, each of
the twelve rows, each 8' x 100', will have two sources of dripped
irrigation.
Something like a tree, which has a large, extensive root system, will
"seek water". But what you are proposing is that very small seedlings
will have a span of roots capable fo finding water 4 ft away.
They won't. In a gutless sandy soil the plants will never find the
water in time. They will need some other source of watyer, until the
roots travel 4 ft to the birrigation damp in the furrow 4 ft away.
Many field crops have far more extensive and deeper root systems than
trees relative to plant size... corn roots go down as far as corn
grows tall...
They don't. Corn has a fibrous root system and although extensive, they
aren't deep rooted at all.
Corn is a relatively deep rooted crop. Typically, in
deep soils, roots grow laterally 12 to 18 inches
from the stalk and downward to a depth of 4 feet or
more. About 90 percent of the roots will be found in
the top 3 feet, which is considered the effective
rooting depth for irrigation purposes.
Snort! As usual Jon, you have made me laugh. You and Sheldon haven't got a
clue what you are blathering on about but that doesn't stop either of you
posting your typical idiocies.

Since you clearly don't know a THING about what you are writing about I
suggest you do some research. HINT: the OP is asking about corn that is
grown to eat as a vegetable and NOT corn grown for stock to eat.

Try doing a search based on sweetcorn rather than field corn you dimwit.

I repeat, corn has a fibrous root system and isn't deep rooted.
Rudy Canoza
2007-05-01 07:44:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Janet Baraclough
Can I presume that the plants' roots will "seek" the water? Under
this scheme, since there will be a hose in each of 13 furrows, each of
the twelve rows, each 8' x 100', will have two sources of dripped
irrigation.
Something like a tree, which has a large, extensive root system, will
"seek water". But what you are proposing is that very small seedlings
will have a span of roots capable fo finding water 4 ft away.
They won't. In a gutless sandy soil the plants will never find the
water in time. They will need some other source of watyer, until the
roots travel 4 ft to the birrigation damp in the furrow 4 ft away.
Many field crops have far more extensive and deeper root systems than
trees relative to plant size... corn roots go down as far as corn
grows tall...
They don't. Corn has a fibrous root system and although extensive, they
aren't deep rooted at all.
Corn is a relatively deep rooted crop. Typically, in
deep soils, roots grow laterally 12 to 18 inches
from the stalk and downward to a depth of 4 feet or
more. About 90 percent of the roots will be found in
the top 3 feet, which is considered the effective
rooting depth for irrigation purposes.
Snort! As usual Jon, you have made me laugh. You and Sheldon haven't got a
clue what you are blathering on about but that doesn't stop either of you
posting your typical idiocies.
Since you clearly don't know a THING about what you are writing about I
suggest you do some research. HINT: the OP is asking about corn that is
grown to eat as a vegetable and NOT corn grown for stock to eat.
Try doing a search based on sweetcorn rather than field corn you dimwit.
I repeat, corn has a fibrous root system and isn't deep rooted.
Rudy Canoza
2007-05-01 07:46:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Janet Baraclough
Can I presume that the plants' roots will "seek" the water? Under
this scheme, since there will be a hose in each of 13 furrows, each of
the twelve rows, each 8' x 100', will have two sources of dripped
irrigation.
Something like a tree, which has a large, extensive root system, will
"seek water". But what you are proposing is that very small seedlings
will have a span of roots capable fo finding water 4 ft away.
They won't. In a gutless sandy soil the plants will never find the
water in time. They will need some other source of watyer, until the
roots travel 4 ft to the birrigation damp in the furrow 4 ft away.
Many field crops have far more extensive and deeper root systems than
trees relative to plant size... corn roots go down as far as corn
grows tall...
They don't. Corn has a fibrous root system and although extensive, they
aren't deep rooted at all.
Corn is a relatively deep rooted crop. Typically, in
deep soils, roots grow laterally 12 to 18 inches
from the stalk and downward to a depth of 4 feet or
more. About 90 percent of the roots will be found in
the top 3 feet, which is considered the effective
rooting depth for irrigation purposes.
Snort! As usual Jon, you have made me laugh. You and Sheldon haven't got a
clue what you are blathering on about but that doesn't stop either of you
posting your typical idiocies.
Since you clearly don't know a THING about what you are writing about I
suggest you do some research. HINT: the OP is asking about corn that is
grown to eat as a vegetable and NOT corn grown for stock to eat.
Try doing a search based on sweetcorn rather than field corn you dimwit.
As usual, you fat farm pig, you fucked up:

The primary root (often erroneously called
temporary), which could still be easily identified,
pursued an obliquely downward and outward course,
ending 28 inches horizontally from the base of the
stalk and at a depth of 37 inches. Only a few roots
penetrated deeper. One, however, was found near the
4-foot level, but the usual depth of maximum
penetration scarcely exceeded 3 feet. The working
level was at a depth of 2 feet and a maximum lateral
spread of 3 feet had been attained. The working
level, or the working depth, means that to which
many roots penetrate and at which much absorption
must occur.

Three feet is not "shallow rooted", you fat bitch.
FarmI
2007-05-02 07:07:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Janet Baraclough
Can I presume that the plants' roots will "seek" the water? Under
this scheme, since there will be a hose in each of 13 furrows, each of
the twelve rows, each 8' x 100', will have two sources of dripped
irrigation.
Something like a tree, which has a large, extensive root system, will
"seek water". But what you are proposing is that very small seedlings
will have a span of roots capable fo finding water 4 ft away.
They won't. In a gutless sandy soil the plants will never find the
water in time. They will need some other source of watyer, until the
roots travel 4 ft to the birrigation damp in the furrow 4 ft away.
Many field crops have far more extensive and deeper root systems than
trees relative to plant size... corn roots go down as far as corn
grows tall...
They don't. Corn has a fibrous root system and although extensive,
they aren't deep rooted at all.
Corn is a relatively deep rooted crop. Typically, in
deep soils, roots grow laterally 12 to 18 inches
from the stalk and downward to a depth of 4 feet or
more. About 90 percent of the roots will be found in
the top 3 feet, which is considered the effective
rooting depth for irrigation purposes.
Snort! As usual Jon, you have made me laugh. You and Sheldon haven't
got a clue what you are blathering on about but that doesn't stop either
of you posting your typical idiocies.
Since you clearly don't know a THING about what you are writing about I
suggest you do some research. HINT: the OP is asking about corn that is
grown to eat as a vegetable and NOT corn grown for stock to eat.
Try doing a search based on sweetcorn rather than field corn you dimwit.
The primary root (often erroneously called
temporary), which could still be easily identified,
pursued an obliquely downward and outward course,
ending 28 inches horizontally from the base of the
stalk and at a depth of 37 inches. Only a few roots
penetrated deeper. One, however, was found near the
4-foot level, but the usual depth of maximum
penetration scarcely exceeded 3 feet. The working
level was at a depth of 2 feet and a maximum lateral
spread of 3 feet had been attained. The working
level, or the working depth, means that to which
many roots penetrate and at which much absorption
must occur.
Three feet is not "shallow rooted", you fat bitch.
As usual, you seem to have problems reading for comprehension
and nor can you post a source for that cite.

Do a search for sweetcorn. I know a small lad from Pasadena will have
trouble identifying a crop of corn either in a garden or in the field, but
you could try a wee bit harder.

And while you are at it also read the response from Geodjn who also
obviously has experience growing corn. That makes 3 of us who have all
posted that corn does not send down roots to the depth that you, Jim and
Sheldon state. The 3 of us who have posted this have all got experience
growing sweetcorn, not cattle feed.
Rudy Canoza
2007-05-02 07:22:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Janet Baraclough
Can I presume that the plants' roots will "seek" the water? Under
this scheme, since there will be a hose in each of 13 furrows, each of
the twelve rows, each 8' x 100', will have two sources of dripped
irrigation.
Something like a tree, which has a large, extensive root system, will
"seek water". But what you are proposing is that very small seedlings
will have a span of roots capable fo finding water 4 ft away.
They won't. In a gutless sandy soil the plants will never find the
water in time. They will need some other source of watyer, until the
roots travel 4 ft to the birrigation damp in the furrow 4 ft away.
Many field crops have far more extensive and deeper root systems than
trees relative to plant size... corn roots go down as far as corn
grows tall...
They don't. Corn has a fibrous root system and although extensive,
they aren't deep rooted at all.
Corn is a relatively deep rooted crop. Typically, in
deep soils, roots grow laterally 12 to 18 inches
from the stalk and downward to a depth of 4 feet or
more. About 90 percent of the roots will be found in
the top 3 feet, which is considered the effective
rooting depth for irrigation purposes.
Snort! As usual Jon, you have made me laugh. You and Sheldon haven't
got a clue what you are blathering on about but that doesn't stop either
of you posting your typical idiocies.
Since you clearly don't know a THING about what you are writing about I
suggest you do some research. HINT: the OP is asking about corn that is
grown to eat as a vegetable and NOT corn grown for stock to eat.
Try doing a search based on sweetcorn rather than field corn you dimwit.
The primary root (often erroneously called
temporary), which could still be easily identified,
pursued an obliquely downward and outward course,
ending 28 inches horizontally from the base of the
stalk and at a depth of 37 inches. Only a few roots
penetrated deeper. One, however, was found near the
4-foot level, but the usual depth of maximum
penetration scarcely exceeded 3 feet. The working
level was at a depth of 2 feet and a maximum lateral
spread of 3 feet had been attained. The working
level, or the working depth, means that to which
many roots penetrate and at which much absorption
must occur.
Three feet is not "shallow rooted", you fat bitch.
As usual, you seem to have problems reading for comprehension
None.
Post by FarmI
and nor can you post a source for that cite.
Yes, of course I *can*, fat farm pig frannie. I merely
forgot. Here ya go, fat bitch:
http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglibrary/010137veg.roots/010137ch2.html

Note the title: "Chapter II - Sweet Corn"

You fat stupid bitch.
Post by FarmI
Do a search for sweetcorn.
I did, stupid fat bitch frannie. That's how I found
the citation that says sweet corn can grow roots to a
depth of three feet, or just under a meter. Note, you
stupid fat pig: if the roots only went two feet, or
even one, that would not be "shallow rooted".

You stupid, stupid fat pig.
FarmI
2007-05-02 14:18:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Try doing a search based on sweetcorn rather than field corn you dimwit.
The primary root (often erroneously called
temporary), which could still be easily identified,
pursued an obliquely downward and outward course,
ending 28 inches horizontally from the base of the
stalk and at a depth of 37 inches. Only a few roots
penetrated deeper. One, however, was found near the
4-foot level, but the usual depth of maximum
penetration scarcely exceeded 3 feet. The working
level was at a depth of 2 feet and a maximum lateral
spread of 3 feet had been attained. The working
level, or the working depth, means that to which
many roots penetrate and at which much absorption
must occur.
Three feet is not "shallow rooted", you fat bitch.
As usual, you seem to have problems reading for comprehension
None.
Well you continue to post proof positive that you can't read for
comprehension.

It's good fun to see you repeatedly fall over.
Post by FarmI
and nor can you post a source for that cite.
Yes, of course I *can*, fat farm pig frannie. I merely forgot. Here ya
http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglibrary/010137veg.roots/010137ch2.html
Note the title: "Chapter II - Sweet Corn"
You fat stupid bitch.
LOL. You poor, dumb, budgerigar brained, dill.

You didn't bother to check out Chapter 1 of that cite did you? You don't
know the history of the development of sweetcorn do you?

The publication which you are so happily crowing about comes from a
publication of 1927!!!!!

Take yourself off and find out about what has happened to sweetcorn since
1927 little Jonny. You really are grossly ill informed on this topic (as is
usual).
Post by FarmI
Do a search for sweetcorn.
I did, stupid fat bitch frannie.
Yeah but you didn't do it with any degree of competence. You got it WRONG,
WRONG, WRONG! (as usual).

That's how I found
the citation that says sweet corn can grow roots to a depth of three feet,
or just under a meter. Note, you stupid fat pig: if the roots only went
two feet, or even one, that would not be "shallow rooted".
LOL. But you got it wrong and so out of date that it's laughable.

And Sheldon will be soooooooo disappointed in you! He says that the roots
of corn go down as deep as the corn is tall. You've just shot him down in
flames. Unless of course, he is growing dwarf corn.

My crop this year topped 6 ft 6 inches so Sheldon must have had a knee high
crop. If he did, he can't grow corn for nuts and my BIIIIIIGGGGGGGG corn
had roots that were nowhere near 3 ft deep and I have a freezer full of ears
so it was certainly productive.

And you would know that if you ever grew corn or knew anything about this
topic on which you are making such a fool of yourself.

Let's try a few more modern cites than one written in 1927 little Jonny:
http://www.tinkersgardens.com/vegetables/corn.asp
Corn is a a shallow rooted heavy feeder.

http://ucce.ucdavis.edu/files/filelibrary/2193/231.htm
Shallow-rooted crops, including lettuce, sweet corn and radish, have most of
their roots in the top 12 inches or so of soil.

http://wnyalive.com/corn.htm
Since corn is a shallow rooted plant it is very sensitive to moisture
fluctuations.

http://growingtaste.com/vegetables/corn.shtml
Corn is a very, very heavy feeder and so needs soil that is extremely
well-fertilized. (It makes a good follower, in crop rotations, to legumes,
which enrich the soil with nitrogen.) Though corn is mainly shallow-rooted,
a deep-dug bed is best, especially when using closer spacings.

http://www.clemson.edu/psamedia/2001/bbjune28-2.txt
Shallow-rooted
crops include lettuce, corn, potato and radish.

You don't know a thing about corn, sweet or otherwise and can't even
properly check out your sources to support your idiot comments!

You didn't know the date of the cite and know nothing about modern sweetcorn
varities. If you knew what you were writing about you'd realise that your
cite was about as relevant to this topic as growing corn in the Jurassic
age.
You stupid, stupid fat pig.
Well thankfully it doesn't take much to show that you are very, very, very
stupid.

No doubt your stupidity, inadequancy and lack of contentment in life account
for your bile. It'd be almost sad if you weren't so divertingly and so
unconsciously amusing.
Rudy Canoza
2007-05-02 07:25:31 UTC
Permalink
Here's more, you stooooooopid stubborn bitch:

Early Development.--An initial examination was made
June 18, only 16 days after planting. The plants
were 7 inches tall, in the sixth-leaf stage, and had
a leaf spread of 8 inches. The total leaf surface
averaged 45 square inches. Unlike field corn, which
usually has three roots making up the primary root
system, sweet corn has but one. This seed root was
already 18 inches long on most of the plants examined.


http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglibrary/010137veg.roots/010137ch2.html

The plant was 7 inches high, and the root was 18 inches
long. In other words, the root was a bit more than two
and a half times as long as the stalk. But you, you
stupid fat twat, don't consider that "deep rooted".

You are fucking hopeless, frannie. You're also a fat pig.
FarmI
2007-05-02 14:22:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Early Development.--An initial examination was made
June 18, only 16 days after planting. The plants
were 7 inches tall, in the sixth-leaf stage, and had
a leaf spread of 8 inches. The total leaf surface
averaged 45 square inches. Unlike field corn, which
usually has three roots making up the primary root
system, sweet corn has but one. This seed root was
already 18 inches long on most of the plants examined.
http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglibrary/010137veg.roots/010137ch2.html
The plant was 7 inches high, and the root was 18 inches long. In other
words, the root was a bit more than two and a half times as long as the
stalk. But you, you stupid fat twat, don't consider that "deep rooted".
You are fucking hopeless, frannie.
MORE form that ancient source Jon?
Post by Rudy Canoza
You're also a fat pig.
But at least I have a brain and know about sweetcorn unlike yourself. I'm
also not a stunted dwarf, I'm not underemployed and I'm happy with my
spouse. Shame about your life.
AL
2007-05-02 18:52:55 UTC
Permalink
FarmI wrote:
[...]
Post by FarmI
But at least I have a brain
[...]



Oh yeah! Take that one on the road - it'll be good for tons of laughs...

AL
FarmI
2007-05-03 06:45:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by AL
[...]
Post by FarmI
But at least I have a brain
[...]
Oh yeah! Take that one on the road - it'll be good for tons of laughs...
AL
AL, the village idiot arrives on the scene. Late as usual and after the
other village idiots have all been seen off for the idiots they are. How
typical.
Jim
2007-05-01 11:48:33 UTC
Permalink
FarmI wrote:
[....]
Post by FarmI
I repeat, corn has a fibrous root system and isn't deep rooted.
"After six years of continuous cover crop studies,
Plumer says corn roots are going as deep as 75 in."

http://cornandsoybeandigest.com/mag/soybean_cover/
v***@tucklings.com
2007-05-01 13:43:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
[....]
Post by FarmI
I repeat, corn has a fibrous root system and isn't deep rooted.
"After six years of continuous cover crop studies,
Plumer says corn roots are going as deep as 75 in."
http://cornandsoybeandigest.com/mag/soybean_cover/
Howdy, Jim!

How's dem soy beans?

Vernon
Jim
2007-05-02 00:10:07 UTC
Permalink
[....]
Post by v***@tucklings.com
Howdy, Jim!
How's dem soy beans?
Vernon
it's all a big test. you ever read the Book of Job?
it's been kind of like that. it started with the
radiator in the JD4020 giving up it's life. I tried to
go the cost saving route with a clean out and a patch but
the repair person explained a new one would cost less.
with the new one being $515.00 I did not even want to know
what he was going to charge. I got all that put back
together and began the slow task of chisel plowing to break
the hard pan. the chisel plow really really works that
tractor. as a matter of fact you can anchor that 100 HP
tractor with that chisel and let the rear tires dig big holes.
trying to get as much done as fast as I could I set the control
to load and draft and let her pull just as hard as she could.
I chiseled about 7 acres when I decided to park under a shade
tree and stretch my legs. it was then I saw the hydraulic
fluid leaking from the left side of the load control shaft.
about 5 years ago that repair cost me $591.00 at a JD dealer.
the repair work requires several 4 ton jacks and two people
when putting things back together so the new seals don't get
dinged. needless to say I parked the tractor and sent to town
for a coffee break get away. when I passed a friend's Farm and
saw him out there working on a disc connected to his JD4020 I
decide to stop and tell him what had just happened to my 4020.
he told me about going through the same and gave me the name
of a man to call who will do the repair for around $150.00 labor
if I provide the extra set of hands for when the load control
shaft goes back in. the man makes his living working on Farm
tractors and his name has come up several times since I called
him and asked him to add my JD4020 to his list of things to do.
everybody spoke highly of him so I feel pretty good about working
with him. God provided the use of another tractor large enough
to pull the offset disc so I finished the total preparation of
the 7 acres yesterday and started planting today. I use a Ford
4000 for lite work and to pull my seed drill, which is actually
called a grain drill, to plant with. the Ford 4000 ran hot and
all she was doing was pulling a grain drill, but then it was 91F
here today. I thought to myself of how the Ford saw me put that
radiator in the JD and how she just might be wanting one too.
not wanting to harm the Perkins diesel I stopped planting and
went to the shop to see if I could determine why the Ford was
running so hot. after removing the front grill I observed how
some birds had got together and built a bird condominium with
guest accommodations for visiting relatives in front of the
radiator. after cleaning all that out I got back to planting
and the temp gauge hung around 180F where she was suppose to be
instead of the 210F.

all in all it's just events and with God to get me through
each one I'll just keep on keeping on.

Praise God for He is truly good!

Jim
FarmI
2007-05-02 07:17:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Post by FarmI
I repeat, corn has a fibrous root system and isn't deep rooted.
"After six years of continuous cover crop studies,
Plumer says corn roots are going as deep as 75 in."
http://cornandsoybeandigest.com/mag/soybean_cover/
Jim, try doing a hunt on sweetcorn and NOT on field corn. That cite you
give is from an organisation that specialises in field corn which is used
for stock feed and ethanol production and NOT for sweetcorn.

Sweetcorn has mutated genes that gives it its sweetness - it is not the same
genetically as field or row corn. I know, as do at least 2 other people who
have posted on this thread, that sweetcorn does not have a deep root system.
Rudy Canoza
2007-05-02 07:26:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Post by Jim
Post by FarmI
I repeat, corn has a fibrous root system and isn't deep rooted.
"After six years of continuous cover crop studies,
Plumer says corn roots are going as deep as 75 in."
http://cornandsoybeandigest.com/mag/soybean_cover/
Jim, try doing a hunt on sweetcorn and NOT on field corn.
I already did, frannie, you fat pig, and it shows you
*still* to be full of shit. Sweet corn is *not*
shallow rooted.
FarmI
2007-05-02 14:23:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Jim
Post by FarmI
I repeat, corn has a fibrous root system and isn't deep rooted.
"After six years of continuous cover crop studies,
Plumer says corn roots are going as deep as 75 in."
http://cornandsoybeandigest.com/mag/soybean_cover/
Jim, try doing a hunt on sweetcorn and NOT on field corn.
I already did,
No you didn't Jonny boy. You only think you did. You got it WRONG!

Bwahhaaaaahaaaaa!
Post by Rudy Canoza
Sweet corn is *not* shallow rooted.
Shows how ignorant you are! But when has that ever stopped you?
Bwahaaaahaaaa!
Jim
2007-05-02 11:06:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Post by Jim
Post by FarmI
I repeat, corn has a fibrous root system and isn't deep rooted.
"After six years of continuous cover crop studies,
Plumer says corn roots are going as deep as 75 in."
http://cornandsoybeandigest.com/mag/soybean_cover/
Jim, try doing a hunt on sweetcorn and NOT on field corn. That cite you
give is from an organisation that specialises in field corn which is used
for stock feed and ethanol production and NOT for sweetcorn.
Sweetcorn has mutated genes that gives it its sweetness - it is not the same
genetically as field or row corn. I know, as do at least 2 other people who
have posted on this thread, that sweetcorn does not have a deep root system.
"Moderately deep rooting vegetables with a depth of 70cm to 100cm
are: Broad beans, bush beans, pole beans, beetroot, carrot, cucumber,
eggplant, peas, peppers, squash, sweetcorn, Swiss chard and turnips."

http://www.knowwhere2go.co.za/find-it/environment/Article%203c/Fanie4.html


one also needs to consider how most sweet corn is grown in small
gardens where humans apply irrigation methods which have the result
of causing the plants to find water at or near the surface thereby
reducing the plants need for developing deep water searching root
systems.
FarmI
2007-05-02 14:01:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Post by FarmI
Post by Jim
Post by FarmI
I repeat, corn has a fibrous root system and isn't deep rooted.
"After six years of continuous cover crop studies,
Plumer says corn roots are going as deep as 75 in."
http://cornandsoybeandigest.com/mag/soybean_cover/
Jim, try doing a hunt on sweetcorn and NOT on field corn. That cite you
give is from an organisation that specialises in field corn which is used
for stock feed and ethanol production and NOT for sweetcorn.
Sweetcorn has mutated genes that gives it its sweetness - it is not the same
genetically as field or row corn. I know, as do at least 2 other people who
have posted on this thread, that sweetcorn does not have a deep root system.
"Moderately deep rooting vegetables with a depth of 70cm to 100cm
are: Broad beans, bush beans, pole beans, beetroot, carrot, cucumber,
eggplant, peas, peppers, squash, sweetcorn, Swiss chard and turnips."
http://www.knowwhere2go.co.za/find-it/environment/Article%203c/Fanie4.html
Good grief Jim! Are you trying to be as stupid as Jon Ball?

If you MUST cite a post from South Africa, at least look at what you are
posting!

Since when is a maximium depth of 100 cm which is quoted in that South
African cite, the same as 75 inches which is your previous claim to root
depth?????????????????????????????????

But at least you have reduced your previous claimed root depth by about
half.

AND if you bothered to look at the list of plants and know anything about
growing veg at all then you will notice a problem with the lists of which
vegetable has shallow, moderate and deep roots!!!!!!!!!!

Cabbage and broccoli are supposedly shallow rooted whereas carrots are
supposedly moderately deep at 70 cm to 100 cm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When did you
last grow a carrot that was 28 inches to 39 inches long???????????????????

Get real!
Post by Jim
one also needs to consider how most sweet corn is grown in small
gardens where humans apply irrigation methods which have the result
of causing the plants to find water at or near the surface thereby
reducing the plants need for developing deep water searching root
systems.
Well if you are now going to try that argument, where is your cite to back
it up?
Rudy Canoza
2007-05-02 15:15:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Post by Jim
Post by FarmI
Post by Jim
Post by FarmI
I repeat, corn has a fibrous root system and isn't deep rooted.
"After six years of continuous cover crop studies,
Plumer says corn roots are going as deep as 75 in."
http://cornandsoybeandigest.com/mag/soybean_cover/
Jim, try doing a hunt on sweetcorn and NOT on field corn. That cite you
give is from an organisation that specialises in field corn which is used
for stock feed and ethanol production and NOT for sweetcorn.
Sweetcorn has mutated genes that gives it its sweetness - it is not the same
genetically as field or row corn. I know, as do at least 2 other people who
have posted on this thread, that sweetcorn does not have a deep root system.
"Moderately deep rooting vegetables with a depth of 70cm to 100cm
are: Broad beans, bush beans, pole beans, beetroot, carrot, cucumber,
eggplant, peas, peppers, squash, sweetcorn, Swiss chard and turnips."
http://www.knowwhere2go.co.za/find-it/environment/Article%203c/Fanie4.html
Good grief Jim! Are you trying to be as stupid as Jon Ball?
Sweet corn is a deep rooted crop, fat farm pig frannie.
Just admit you screwed up - again.
FarmI
2007-05-03 06:00:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Good grief Jim! Are you trying to be as stupid as Jon Ball?
Sweet corn is a deep rooted crop, fat farm pig frannie. Just admit you
screwed up - again.
LOL. How typical that an insult is the best you can do when caught out.
Sad but typical of a small man.
Rudy Canoza
2007-05-03 06:11:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Post by FarmI
Good grief Jim! Are you trying to be as stupid as Jon Ball?
Sweet corn is a deep rooted crop, fat farm pig frannie. Just admit you
screwed up - again.
LOL. How typical that
Just admit that you fucked up again, fat farm pig
frannie. It will be good for you.
FarmI
2007-05-04 04:38:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Post by FarmI
Good grief Jim! Are you trying to be as stupid as Jon Ball?
Sweet corn is a deep rooted crop, fat farm pig frannie. Just admit you
screwed up - again.
LOL. How typical that
Just admit that you fucked up again, fat farm pig frannie. It will be
good for you.
LOL. If I knew that you had any sense of humour at all, I might think that
you posted that screamer with your tongue in your cheek. But given that you
have had an irony bypass and have a triple Major in hypocrisy, I'll just sit
here and laugh at what makes a small man tick.
Rudy Canoza
2007-05-04 06:08:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Post by FarmI
Post by FarmI
Good grief Jim! Are you trying to be as stupid as Jon Ball?
Sweet corn is a deep rooted crop, fat farm pig frannie. Just admit you
screwed up - again.
LOL. How typical that
Just admit that you fucked up again, fat farm pig frannie. It will be
good for you.
LOL. If I knew that you had
It's not about me, fat farm pig. It's about you. You
fucked up. Admit you fucked up, and try to do better
in future.
FarmI
2007-05-04 22:09:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
LOL. If I knew that you had
It's not about me, fat farm pig.
It IS all about you wee man. You got caught out big time and you aren't big
enough to admit it.
Rudy Canoza
2007-05-05 00:04:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
LOL. If I knew that you had
It's not about me, fat farm pig.
It IS all about you
It's not about me, fat farm pig. It's about you and your fuck-up, and
your inability to admit it.
FarmI
2007-05-06 05:01:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
LOL. If I knew that you had
It's not about me, fat farm pig.
It IS all about you
It's not about me, fat farm pig. It's about you and your fuck-up, and
your inability to admit it.
So much for your self assessed "excellent" education. You put forward one
cite that is roundly trounced because you couldn't read it and comprehend it
and the all you do is whine continuously about how the other person was
wrong and repeat, repat repeat. You were wrong little man.
Rudy Canoza
2007-05-06 05:38:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
LOL. If I knew that you had
It's not about me, fat farm pig.
It IS all about you
It's not about me, fat farm pig. It's about you and your fuck-up, and
your inability to admit it.
So much for
It's about you, fat farm pig: you and your arrogance
and inflated sense of importance.

You fucked up, fat farm pig. You fucked up, and you're
too arrogant to admit it.
FarmI
2007-05-07 01:36:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
LOL. If I knew that you had
It's not about me, fat farm pig.
It IS all about you
It's not about me, fat farm pig. It's about you and your fuck-up, and
your inability to admit it.
So much for
It's about you, fat farm pig: you and your arrogance and inflated sense
of importance.
It's about you. You are a very small man who tries to look big by inflating
yourself by claiming an "excellent" education but then proceed to
demonstrate that you don't know the rudiments of proof that would be
required if you did have the "excellent" education you claim. You're a
drone Jon Ball.
You fucked up, fat farm pig. You fucked up, and you're too arrogant to
admit it.
LOL. You were the one who did that spectacularly. You are arrogance
personified along with being a hypocrite, a liar and an abusive, foul
mouthed, thug who trys to be a bully to compensate for being so short in
exactly the same way that you claim to have an "excellent" education. If
you weren't so inadequate, you would have a more realistic grasp on your own
talents and abilities, but you just prove what a inadequate small man you
are.
Rudy Canoza
2007-05-07 03:42:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
LOL. If I knew that you had
It's not about me, fat farm pig.
It IS all about you
It's not about me, fat farm pig. It's about you and your fuck-up, and
your inability to admit it.
So much for
It's about you, fat farm pig: you and your arrogance and inflated sense
of importance.
It's about you. You are a very small man who tries to look big by inflating
yourself by claiming an "excellent" education but then proceed to
demonstrate that you don't know the rudiments of proof that would be
required if you did have the "excellent" education you claim. You're a
drone Jon Ball.
You fucked up, fat farm pig. You fucked up, and you're too arrogant to
admit it.
LOL. You were the one who
You fucked up, fat farm pig. As always.
FarmI
2007-05-08 05:24:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
LOL. If I knew that you had
It's not about me, fat farm pig.
It IS all about you
It's not about me, fat farm pig. It's about you and your fuck-up, and
your inability to admit it.
So much for
It's about you, fat farm pig: you and your arrogance and inflated sense
of importance.
It's about you. You are a very small man who tries to look big by
inflating yourself by claiming an "excellent" education but then proceed
to demonstrate that you don't know the rudiments of proof that would be
required if you did have the "excellent" education you claim. You're a
drone Jon Ball.
You fucked up, fat farm pig. You fucked up, and you're too arrogant to
admit it.
LOL. You were the one who
You fucked up, fat farm pig.
Nope. T'was you who did that.
Rudy Canoza
2007-05-08 05:42:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
LOL. If I knew that you had
It's not about me, fat farm pig.
It IS all about you
It's not about me, fat farm pig. It's about you and your fuck-up, and
your inability to admit it.
So much for
It's about you, fat farm pig: you and your arrogance and inflated sense
of importance.
It's about you. You are a very small man who tries to look big by
inflating yourself by claiming an "excellent" education but then proceed
to demonstrate that you don't know the rudiments of proof that would be
required if you did have the "excellent" education you claim. You're a
drone Jon Ball.
You fucked up, fat farm pig. You fucked up, and you're too arrogant to
admit it.
LOL. You were the one who
You fucked up, fat farm pig.
Nope.
Yep. You FUCKED UP, fat farm pig. You ran your fat
ignorant pig yap about something you didn't know.
Sweet corn grows roots a meter OR MORE deep, fat farm
pig. That is not "shallow".

You fucked up, frannie, you fat pig - again.
FarmI
2007-05-09 04:07:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
LOL. If I knew that you had
It's not about me, fat farm pig.
It IS all about you
It's not about me, fat farm pig. It's about you and your fuck-up, and
your inability to admit it.
So much for
It's about you, fat farm pig: you and your arrogance and inflated
sense of importance.
It's about you. You are a very small man who tries to look big by
inflating yourself by claiming an "excellent" education but then
proceed to demonstrate that you don't know the rudiments of proof that
would be required if you did have the "excellent" education you claim.
You're a drone Jon Ball.
You fucked up, fat farm pig. You fucked up, and you're too arrogant
to admit it.
LOL. You were the one who
You fucked up, fat farm pig.
Nope.
Yep. You FUCKED UP, fat farm pig. You ran your fat ignorant pig yap
about something you didn't know. Sweet corn grows roots a meter OR MORE
deep, fat farm pig. That is not "shallow".
You fucked up, frannie, you fat pig - again.
Nope. But if you keep up your hysterical foot stomping, you'll fall off
those elevator shoes and do yourself a very nasty injury.
Rudy Canoza
2007-05-07 15:35:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
LOL. If I knew that you had
It's not about me, fat farm pig.
It IS all about you
It's not about me, fat farm pig. It's about you and your fuck-up, and
your inability to admit it.
So much for
It's about you, fat farm pig: you and your arrogance and inflated sense
of importance.
It's about you.
It's about you, you ugly sodden fat farm pig.
Post by Rudy Canoza
You fucked up, fat farm pig. You fucked up, and you're too arrogant to
admit it.
LOL. You were the one who did that spectacularly.
You fucked up, fat farm pig - again.

"Young sweet corn plants have a rather coarse, shallow
root system, but as the plant approaches maturity, the
root system becomes more fibrous and penetrate to a
depth of 3 ft or more."
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/hil/hil-13.html

I.e., not shallow. Three feet and more is deep.
FarmI
2007-05-08 05:24:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
LOL. If I knew that you had
It's not about me, fat farm pig.
It IS all about you
It's not about me, fat farm pig. It's about you and your fuck-up, and
your inability to admit it.
So much for
It's about you, fat farm pig: you and your arrogance and inflated sense
of importance.
It's about you.
It's about you, you ugly sodden fat farm pig.
Post by Rudy Canoza
You fucked up, fat farm pig. You fucked up, and you're too arrogant to
admit it.
LOL. You were the one who did that spectacularly.
You fucked up, fat farm pig - again.
"Young sweet corn plants have a rather coarse, shallow root system, but as
the plant approaches maturity, the root system becomes more fibrous and
penetrate to a depth of 3 ft or more."
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/hil/hil-13.html
I.e., not shallow. Three feet and more is deep.
Well glad to see that you finally got of your lazy butt and tried to give
some form of argument rather than your usual simplistic "'cos I say so"
response. And soooooooo interesting to see that a man with your huge
knowledge and expertise of corn growing has gone from braying about corn
having roots that go to 4 ft to now saying that they have a root system of 3
ft and that the said 3 ft is what you now condsider to be deep. That's a
reduction of 25%.

However, see the post to Jim re carrot roots. The fine fibrous hairs may
indeed go down to 3 ft but the big feeder roots are shallow rooted. You'd
know that if you grew any corn.
Rudy Canoza
2007-05-08 05:41:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
LOL. If I knew that you had
It's not about me, fat farm pig.
It IS all about you
It's not about me, fat farm pig. It's about you and your fuck-up, and
your inability to admit it.
So much for
It's about you, fat farm pig: you and your arrogance and inflated sense
of importance.
It's about you.
It's about you, you ugly sodden fat farm pig.
Post by Rudy Canoza
You fucked up, fat farm pig. You fucked up, and you're too arrogant to
admit it.
LOL. You were the one who did that spectacularly.
You fucked up, fat farm pig - again.
"Young sweet corn plants have a rather coarse, shallow root system, but as
the plant approaches maturity, the root system becomes more fibrous and
penetrate to a depth of 3 ft or more."
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/hil/hil-13.html
I.e., not shallow. Three feet and more is deep.
Well glad to see that you finally got of your lazy butt and tried to give
some form of argument rather than your usual simplistic "'cos I say so"
response.
I always gave an argument based on evidence, you fat
farm pig.

You fucked up, fat farm pig - again. Three feet - and
more - is not "shallow rooted". You don't know your
fat doughy ass from your oinky pig face.
FarmI
2007-05-09 04:06:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
LOL. If I knew that you had
It's not about me, fat farm pig.
It IS all about you
It's not about me, fat farm pig. It's about you and your fuck-up, and
your inability to admit it.
So much for
It's about you, fat farm pig: you and your arrogance and inflated
sense of importance.
It's about you.
It's about you, you ugly sodden fat farm pig.
Post by Rudy Canoza
You fucked up, fat farm pig. You fucked up, and you're too arrogant
to admit it.
LOL. You were the one who did that spectacularly.
You fucked up, fat farm pig - again.
"Young sweet corn plants have a rather coarse, shallow root system, but
as the plant approaches maturity, the root system becomes more fibrous
and penetrate to a depth of 3 ft or more."
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/hil/hil-13.html
I.e., not shallow. Three feet and more is deep.
Well glad to see that you finally got of your lazy butt and tried to give
some form of argument rather than your usual simplistic "'cos I say so"
response.
I always gave an argument based on evidence, you fat farm pig.
What absolute rubbish.

You've posted 2 cites. The first one was so old that it was irrelevent, and
it claimed a 4 ft root depth. You post a 2nd cite which reduces that root
depth to 3 ft ( a 25% reduction on your previous claim to 'evidence') but
also says in the article that roots are near the surface. You don't grow
corn so have no experience or knowledge on which to base any claim to
evidence.
You fucked up, fat farm pig - again. Three feet - and more - is not
"shallow rooted".
Why don't you go out into the yard or out onto your balcony and put in some
corn plants. When you have grown some, come back here and then try to tell
us all how to suck eggs.

You don't know your
fat doughy ass from your oinky pig face.
If I did own a donkey, I would certainly be able to tell it's bray from my
porcine facial features. You can't tell the difference between your own
arse and your own elbow, but that never stops you.
Rudy Canoza
2007-05-09 04:37:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
LOL. If I knew that you had
It's not about me, fat farm pig.
It IS all about you
It's not about me, fat farm pig. It's about you and your fuck-up, and
your inability to admit it.
So much for
It's about you, fat farm pig: you and your arrogance and inflated
sense of importance.
It's about you.
It's about you, you ugly sodden fat farm pig.
Post by Rudy Canoza
You fucked up, fat farm pig. You fucked up, and you're too arrogant
to admit it.
LOL. You were the one who did that spectacularly.
You fucked up, fat farm pig - again.
"Young sweet corn plants have a rather coarse, shallow root system, but
as the plant approaches maturity, the root system becomes more fibrous
and penetrate to a depth of 3 ft or more."
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/hil/hil-13.html
I.e., not shallow. Three feet and more is deep.
Well glad to see that you finally got of your lazy butt and tried to give
some form of argument rather than your usual simplistic "'cos I say so"
response.
I always gave an argument based on evidence, you fat farm pig.
What absolute rubbish.
Nope.
Post by FarmI
You've posted 2 cites.
BOTH of which correctly noted that sweet corn root
depth is over a meter. You fucked up.
Post by FarmI
You fucked up, fat farm pig - again. Three feet - and more - is not
"shallow rooted".
Why don't you go out into the yard or out onto your balcony and
You fucked up, fat farm pig frannie. You always fuck
up. It's a habit with you. You're a life-long fuckup.
Post by FarmI
You don't know your
fat doughy ass from your oinky pig face.
If I did own a donkey,
Your fat pimply doughy ass, fat bitch.
Rudy Canoza
2007-05-07 15:39:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
LOL. If I knew that you had
It's not about me, fat farm pig.
It IS all about you
It's not about me, fat farm pig. It's about you and your fuck-up, and
your inability to admit it.
So much for
It's about you, fat farm pig: you and your arrogance and inflated sense
of importance.
It's about you.
It's about you and your thick layers of doughy fat, you
fat farm pig.
Post by Rudy Canoza
You fucked up, fat farm pig. You fucked up, and you're too arrogant to
admit it.
LOL. You were the one who did that spectacularly.
You fucked up, fat farm pig - again:

"Rootzone depth is critical to success and should
preferably be a minimum of 50 cm because sweet corn
roots can grow to 1.2 m."
http://www.ricecrc.org/reader/veg-grow/h8139.htm
FarmI
2007-05-08 05:37:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
LOL. If I knew that you had
It's not about me, fat farm pig.
It IS all about you
It's not about me, fat farm pig. It's about you and your fuck-up, and
your inability to admit it.
So much for
It's about you, fat farm pig: you and your arrogance and inflated sense
of importance.
It's about you.
It's about you and your thick layers of doughy fat, you fat farm pig.
No doubt you got your charming manners from your mother's pimp.
Post by Rudy Canoza
You fucked up, fat farm pig. You fucked up, and you're too arrogant to
admit it.
LOL. You were the one who did that spectacularly.
"Rootzone depth is critical to success and should preferably be a minimum
of 50 cm because sweet corn roots can grow to 1.2 m."
http://www.ricecrc.org/reader/veg-grow/h8139.htm
LOL. Jon Ball you are a complete idiot. If you are going to post a cite at
least READ the thing!

From the SAME cite:
http://www.ricecrc.org/reader/veg-grow/h8139.htm
"Cultivation needs to be shallow, as sweet corn roots are near the surface
and must not be damaged."

You really are as thick as a brick.
Rudy Canoza
2007-05-08 06:17:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
LOL. If I knew that you had
It's not about me, fat farm pig.
It IS all about you
It's not about me, fat farm pig. It's about you and your fuck-up, and
your inability to admit it.
So much for
It's about you, fat farm pig: you and your arrogance and inflated sense
of importance.
It's about you.
It's about you and your thick layers of doughy fat, you fat farm pig.
No doubt you got your charming manners from your mother's pimp.
Post by Rudy Canoza
You fucked up, fat farm pig. You fucked up, and you're too arrogant to
admit it.
LOL. You were the one who did that spectacularly.
"Rootzone depth is critical to success and should preferably be a minimum
of 50 cm because sweet corn roots can grow to 1.2 m."
http://www.ricecrc.org/reader/veg-grow/h8139.htm
LOL.
Yes, your continual fucking up, as well as your
appallingly arrogant refusal to admit that you FUCKED
UP, are funny, albeit in a sick way.
Post by FarmI
http://www.ricecrc.org/reader/veg-grow/h8139.htm
"Cultivation needs to be shallow, as sweet corn roots are near the surface
and must not be damaged."
But they grow deep, fat farm pig - over a meter.

You STUPID, STUPID fat farm pig.
FarmI
2007-05-09 04:24:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
LOL. If I knew that you had
It's not about me, fat farm pig.
It IS all about you
It's not about me, fat farm pig. It's about you and your fuck-up, and
your inability to admit it.
So much for
It's about you, fat farm pig: you and your arrogance and inflated
sense of importance.
It's about you.
It's about you and your thick layers of doughy fat, you fat farm pig.
No doubt you got your charming manners from your mother's pimp.
Post by Rudy Canoza
You fucked up, fat farm pig. You fucked up, and you're too arrogant
to admit it.
LOL. You were the one who did that spectacularly.
"Rootzone depth is critical to success and should preferably be a
minimum of 50 cm because sweet corn roots can grow to 1.2 m."
http://www.ricecrc.org/reader/veg-grow/h8139.htm
LOL.
Yes, your continual fucking up, as well as your appallingly arrogant
refusal to admit that you FUCKED UP, are funny, albeit in a sick way.
Such a dishonest snip little man. Your dishonesty is noted but is no
surprise.
Post by FarmI
http://www.ricecrc.org/reader/veg-grow/h8139.htm
"Cultivation needs to be shallow, as sweet corn roots are near the
surface and must not be damaged."
But they grow deep, fat farm pig - over a meter.
You don't even know what the article means by 'cultivation' do you Jon?
When you have some experieince of growing something other than those pear
trees, you may eventually be able to write about it with some authority. At
the moment you sound like a complete ninny.
You STUPID, STUPID fat farm pig.
But I am an experienced fat farm pig. You are merely a midget from Pasadena
who has no experience, no evidence, no knowledge of the terms you read and
don't even bother to read your cites for comprehension. That makes you just
another pestilential, puerile, pint sized putz to post from Pasadena.
Rudy Canoza
2007-05-09 05:54:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FarmI
LOL. If I knew that you had
It's not about me, fat farm pig.
It IS all about you
It's not about me, fat farm pig. It's about you and your fuck-up, and
your inability to admit it.
So much for
It's about you, fat farm pig: you and your arrogance and inflated
sense of importance.
It's about you.
It's about you and your thick layers of doughy fat, you fat farm pig.
No doubt you got your charming manners from your mother's pimp.
Post by Rudy Canoza
You fucked up, fat farm pig. You fucked up, and you're too arrogant
to admit it.
LOL. You were the one who did that spectacularly.
"Rootzone depth is critical to success and should preferably be a
minimum of 50 cm because sweet corn roots can grow to 1.2 m."
http://www.ricecrc.org/reader/veg-grow/h8139.htm
LOL.
Yes, your continual fucking up, as well as your appallingly arrogant
refusal to admit that you FUCKED UP, are funny, albeit in a sick way.
Such a
You fucked up, fat farm pig frannie. Sweet corn is not
shallow rooted.
Post by FarmI
Post by FarmI
http://www.ricecrc.org/reader/veg-grow/h8139.htm
"Cultivation needs to be shallow, as sweet corn roots are near the
surface and must not be damaged."
But they grow deep, fat farm pig - over a meter.
You don't even know what the
OVER a meter, fat farm pig frannie. That's not shallow.
Post by FarmI
You STUPID, STUPID fat farm pig.
But I am an experienced fat farm pig.
You're just a fat, stupid blowhard of a farm pig,
frannie. And a fuck-up.

Jim
2007-05-03 04:02:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Post by Jim
Post by FarmI
Post by Jim
Post by FarmI
I repeat, corn has a fibrous root system and isn't deep rooted.
"After six years of continuous cover crop studies,
Plumer says corn roots are going as deep as 75 in."
http://cornandsoybeandigest.com/mag/soybean_cover/
Jim, try doing a hunt on sweetcorn and NOT on field corn. That cite you
give is from an organisation that specialises in field corn which is used
for stock feed and ethanol production and NOT for sweetcorn.
Sweetcorn has mutated genes that gives it its sweetness - it is not the same
genetically as field or row corn. I know, as do at least 2 other people who
have posted on this thread, that sweetcorn does not have a deep root system.
"Moderately deep rooting vegetables with a depth of 70cm to 100cm
are: Broad beans, bush beans, pole beans, beetroot, carrot, cucumber,
eggplant, peas, peppers, squash, sweetcorn, Swiss chard and turnips."
http://www.knowwhere2go.co.za/find-it/environment/Article%203c/Fanie4.html
Good grief Jim! Are you trying to be as stupid as Jon Ball?
If you MUST cite a post from South Africa, at least look at what you are
posting!
Since when is a maximium depth of 100 cm which is quoted in that South
African cite, the same as 75 inches which is your previous claim to root
depth?????????????????????????????????
But at least you have reduced your previous claimed root depth by about
half.
AND if you bothered to look at the list of plants and know anything about
growing veg at all then you will notice a problem with the lists of which
vegetable has shallow, moderate and deep roots!!!!!!!!!!
Cabbage and broccoli are supposedly shallow rooted whereas carrots are
supposedly moderately deep at 70 cm to 100 cm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When did you
last grow a carrot that was 28 inches to 39 inches long???????????????????
Get real!
Post by Jim
one also needs to consider how most sweet corn is grown in small
gardens where humans apply irrigation methods which have the result
of causing the plants to find water at or near the surface thereby
reducing the plants need for developing deep water searching root
systems.
Well if you are now going to try that argument, where is your cite to back
it up?
when you dig a carrot and then pull you never really get
to see the tiny small hair like roots that stayed in the
ground. since you are one who will not believe by faith
and faith alone and require the logical mind set of seeing
before you can believe then I can say nothing to convince
you otherwise from that which you have already convinced
yourself of.

have a nice day,
Jim
FarmI
2007-05-03 06:40:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Post by FarmI
Post by Jim
Post by FarmI
Post by Jim
Post by FarmI
I repeat, corn has a fibrous root system and isn't deep rooted.
"After six years of continuous cover crop studies,
Plumer says corn roots are going as deep as 75 in."
http://cornandsoybeandigest.com/mag/soybean_cover/
Jim, try doing a hunt on sweetcorn and NOT on field corn. That cite you
give is from an organisation that specialises in field corn which is used
for stock feed and ethanol production and NOT for sweetcorn.
Sweetcorn has mutated genes that gives it its sweetness - it is not
the
same
genetically as field or row corn. I know, as do at least 2 other
people
who
have posted on this thread, that sweetcorn does not have a deep root system.
"Moderately deep rooting vegetables with a depth of 70cm to 100cm
are: Broad beans, bush beans, pole beans, beetroot, carrot, cucumber,
eggplant, peas, peppers, squash, sweetcorn, Swiss chard and turnips."
http://www.knowwhere2go.co.za/find-it/environment/Article%203c/Fanie4.html
Good grief Jim! Are you trying to be as stupid as Jon Ball?
If you MUST cite a post from South Africa, at least look at what you are
posting!
Since when is a maximium depth of 100 cm which is quoted in that South
African cite, the same as 75 inches which is your previous claim to root
depth?????????????????????????????????
But at least you have reduced your previous claimed root depth by about
half.
AND if you bothered to look at the list of plants and know anything about
growing veg at all then you will notice a problem with the lists of which
vegetable has shallow, moderate and deep roots!!!!!!!!!!
Cabbage and broccoli are supposedly shallow rooted whereas carrots are
supposedly moderately deep at 70 cm to 100 cm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When did you
last grow a carrot that was 28 inches to 39 inches
long???????????????????
Get real!
Post by Jim
one also needs to consider how most sweet corn is grown in small
gardens where humans apply irrigation methods which have the result
of causing the plants to find water at or near the surface thereby
reducing the plants need for developing deep water searching root
systems.
Well if you are now going to try that argument, where is your cite to back
it up?
when you dig a carrot and then pull you never really get
to see the tiny small hair like roots that stayed in the
ground.
Sigh! I was not implying, stating or otherwise inferring that carrots do
not have those tiny small hair like roots! They do, but they are not
considered to be deep rooted. They do need good soil prep and they do need
a good depth of soil sufficient for the carrot to grow to its maximum depth
for that variety BUT they aren't deep rooted to the degree suggested in that
cite you gave. IF they were deep rooted to the depth of 28-39 inches as
mentioned in that cite you gave then they would have to be planted widely
apart. They aren't. They are planted very closely together and while one
or even a few very fine roots may grow deeper, it is those very fine feeder
root hairs that you mention that give the carrot its food. All of that
would happen in the top 12 inches of the soil(or less according to variety).

since you are one who will not believe by faith
Post by Jim
and faith alone and require the logical mind set of seeing
before you can believe then I can say nothing to convince
you otherwise from that which you have already convinced
yourself of.
I have faith in a number of things Jim but not in the word of people on the
Net who simply cite any old rubbish that they haven't thought about.
Sheldon
2007-05-02 17:53:51 UTC
Permalink
FarmI
2007-05-03 06:14:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
one also needs to consider how most sweet corn is grown in small
gardens where humans apply irrigation methods which have the result
of causing the plants to find water at or near the surface thereby
reducing the plants need for developing deep water searching root
systems
That's true of all plants... over watering (and too frequently) is far
worse than underwatering. Corn needs a good amount of moisture when
first starting out but once it's root system begins to develop it's
far better not to water but only occasionally and deeply... with corn
especially too much water will cause the plants to rot and mildew.
Anyone not comatose who has ever observed a corn field would have
noted that the corn planted close to culverts and roadside ditches
quickly dies... you cn actually see teh progression of dead plants to
stunted plants that eventually are normal sized healthy plants as they
are furher from the wet soil. Corn doesn't require much water once it
reaches about 3', it's foliage is so dense that the sun can't easily
penetrate to the ground (except at the noon hour) so it stays moist
for a long time even through protracted dry spells. It's only with
newly planted fields where corn really suffers from lack of
moisture... once corn is taller than a man it's best it doesn't rain
until after harvest.
Good grief, you finally posted something I can agree with. I think I'll buy
a lottery ticket since that is such a rarity.
Most home gardeners have little luck with corn
because they plant too widely spaced (not enough shade and poor
pollination)
Why do you make the assumption that vegetable gardeners are idiots? Don't
judge home gardeners by your own poor standards of observation and
experience of growing vegetables in a home garden.
and then to add insult to injury they over water (and
water incorrectly by wetting the foliage). A lot of novice gardeners
over water, so the plants never develop a proper root system, probably
why so many think corn has shallow roots.
I strongly suspect that you belong to that category of novice gardeners
given that comment.
Sheldon
2007-05-03 19:55:20 UTC
Permalink
Dean Hoffman
2007-05-05 15:02:36 UTC
Permalink
That's true of all plants... over watering (and too frequently) is far
worse than underwatering. Corn needs a good amount of moisture when
first starting out but once it's root system begins to develop it's
far better not to water but only occasionally and deeply... with corn
especially too much water will cause the plants to rot and mildew.
Anyone not comatose who has ever observed a corn field would have
noted that the corn planted close to culverts and roadside ditches
quickly dies... you cn actually see teh progression of dead plants to
stunted plants that eventually are normal sized healthy plants as they
are furher from the wet soil. Corn doesn't require much water once it
reaches about 3', it's foliage is so dense that the sun can't easily
penetrate to the ground (except at the noon hour) so it stays moist
for a long time even through protracted dry spells. It's only with
newly planted fields where corn really suffers from lack of
moisture... once corn is taller than a man it's best it doesn't rain
until after harvest. Most home gardeners have little luck with corn
because they plant too widely spaced (not enough shade and poor
pollination) and then to add insult to injury they over water (and
water incorrectly by wetting the foliage). A lot of novice gardeners
over water, so the plants never develop a proper root system, probably
why so many think corn has shallow roots.
Sweet corn water use pretty much matches field corn water use.
Some info here from the University of Minnesota:
http://tinyurl.com/yvjqno
The irrigation section is a bit over 3/4 of the way down.
Field corn uses a lot of water after it's shoulder high. There's a
water use chart here: http://tinyurl.com/yolyyc The local paper
publishes a water use chart almost daily. The highest use per day I
remember was about .35".
The pattern you suggest would deprive the plant of the water it needs at
the most critical time of production.
I work for an irrigation company in Nebraska. Irrigation season
usually starts for real about the third week in June. Corn will be
somewhere between waist and shoulder high then. The crop canopy should
be close to shading the ground by then depending on the row spacing.
Irrigation will be heavy through about the first week in August then
tapers off. Crop consultants usually tell farmers to irrigate through
the first week in September. That's usually when the black layer forms
at the kernel base. http://tinyurl.com/2bc29o
We had a good rain here about ten days ago. Some of the crop was in
but wouldn't come up due to the soil crusting. The cure for that is
more rain or irrigation. Some irrigation systems were running because
of that.
The seed companies here usually plant 4 or 6 female rows to every male
row for their seed corn production. I don't see how pollination would
be a problem for the home gardener. Each plant has it's own tassle and
silk for pollination purposes unlike the seed corn.
Why is wetting the foliage on a corn plant a bad thing? Pivot
irrigation systems get the foliage wet whenever they're running.

Dean

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Vernon
2007-05-05 23:00:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dean Hoffman
That's true of all plants... over watering (and too frequently) is far
worse than underwatering. Corn needs a good amount of moisture when
first starting out but once it's root system begins to develop it's
far better not to water but only occasionally and deeply... with corn
especially too much water will cause the plants to rot and mildew.
Anyone not comatose who has ever observed a corn field would have
noted that the corn planted close to culverts and roadside ditches
quickly dies... you cn actually see teh progression of dead plants to
stunted plants that eventually are normal sized healthy plants as they
are furher from the wet soil. Corn doesn't require much water once it
reaches about 3', it's foliage is so dense that the sun can't easily
penetrate to the ground (except at the noon hour) so it stays moist
for a long time even through protracted dry spells. It's only with
newly planted fields where corn really suffers from lack of
moisture... once corn is taller than a man it's best it doesn't rain
until after harvest. Most home gardeners have little luck with corn
because they plant too widely spaced (not enough shade and poor
pollination) and then to add insult to injury they over water (and
water incorrectly by wetting the foliage). A lot of novice gardeners
over water, so the plants never develop a proper root system, probably
why so many think corn has shallow roots.
Sweet corn water use pretty much matches field corn water use.
http://tinyurl.com/yvjqno
The irrigation section is a bit over 3/4 of the way down.
Field corn uses a lot of water after it's shoulder high. There's a
water use chart here: http://tinyurl.com/yolyyc The local paper
publishes a water use chart almost daily. The highest use per day I
remember was about .35".
The pattern you suggest would deprive the plant of the water it needs at
the most critical time of production.
I work for an irrigation company in Nebraska. Irrigation season
usually starts for real about the third week in June. Corn will be
somewhere between waist and shoulder high then. The crop canopy should
be close to shading the ground by then depending on the row spacing.
Irrigation will be heavy through about the first week in August then
tapers off. Crop consultants usually tell farmers to irrigate through
the first week in September. That's usually when the black layer forms
at the kernel base. http://tinyurl.com/2bc29o
We had a good rain here about ten days ago. Some of the crop was in
but wouldn't come up due to the soil crusting. The cure for that is
more rain or irrigation. Some irrigation systems were running because
of that.
The seed companies here usually plant 4 or 6 female rows to every male
row for their seed corn production. I don't see how pollination would
be a problem for the home gardener. Each plant has it's own tassle and
silk for pollination purposes unlike the seed corn.
Why is wetting the foliage on a corn plant a bad thing? Pivot
irrigation systems get the foliage wet whenever they're running.
Dean
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----http://www.newsfeeds.comThe #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
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- Show quoted text -
Dean,

Thank you. It has been disconcerting to see this thread hijacked by
people using it as a forum to be rude.

Vernon
FarmI
2007-05-06 05:48:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dean Hoffman
That's true of all plants... over watering (and too frequently) is far
worse than underwatering. Corn needs a good amount of moisture when
first starting out but once it's root system begins to develop it's
far better not to water but only occasionally and deeply... with corn
especially too much water will cause the plants to rot and mildew.
Anyone not comatose who has ever observed a corn field would have
noted that the corn planted close to culverts and roadside ditches
quickly dies... you cn actually see teh progression of dead plants to
stunted plants that eventually are normal sized healthy plants as they
are furher from the wet soil. Corn doesn't require much water once it
reaches about 3', it's foliage is so dense that the sun can't easily
penetrate to the ground (except at the noon hour) so it stays moist
for a long time even through protracted dry spells. It's only with
newly planted fields where corn really suffers from lack of
moisture... once corn is taller than a man it's best it doesn't rain
until after harvest. Most home gardeners have little luck with corn
because they plant too widely spaced (not enough shade and poor
pollination) and then to add insult to injury they over water (and
water incorrectly by wetting the foliage). A lot of novice gardeners
over water, so the plants never develop a proper root system, probably
why so many think corn has shallow roots.
Sweet corn water use pretty much matches field corn water use.
http://tinyurl.com/yvjqno
The irrigation section is a bit over 3/4 of the way down.
Field corn uses a lot of water after it's shoulder high. There's a
water use chart here: http://tinyurl.com/yolyyc The local paper
publishes a water use chart almost daily. The highest use per day I
remember was about .35".
The pattern you suggest would deprive the plant of the water it needs at
the most critical time of production.
As much as it absolutely pains me to defend anything that Sheldon has ever
written, I don't believe that what he wrote above really conflicts with the
information which is given in the cite you provide. (Which is most
interesting - thank you for posting the cite). I guess we could quibble
about the sentence about once it's as high as a man it's best if it doesn't
rain till harvest, but it's close to harvest then anyway and what he means
by 'rain' may be different to what I (or you) mean by rain. For my
conditions 'rain' means a shower of up to an hour if I'm lucky, but for him
it could perhaps mean days of rain. I am told that there are still some
places in the world where such a rain pattern still happens although I am
begining to have doubts about that.

He does mention the use of infrequent but deep watering but that corn hates
waterlogging. He didn't use that term but that is what I took him to mean
from the example he gave.

So long as soil moisture levels remain sufficient for the corn to keep
growing strongly and taking up nutrients, there is no need to water on a
daily or even frequent basis unless the soil is not moisture retentive.
Soil with a high sandy content may be one situation where daily watering is
required. It is doubtful that this would apply though in home gardens where
keen home gardeners know about building up humus content. Humus (and its
retention and increase) is usually more of a problem for broadacre farmers.
Post by Dean Hoffman
I work for an irrigation company in Nebraska. Irrigation season
usually starts for real about the third week in June. Corn will be
somewhere between waist and shoulder high then. The crop canopy should
be close to shading the ground by then depending on the row spacing.
Irrigation will be heavy through about the first week in August then
tapers off. Crop consultants usually tell farmers to irrigate through
the first week in September. That's usually when the black layer forms
at the kernel base. http://tinyurl.com/2bc29o
We had a good rain here about ten days ago. Some of the crop was in
but wouldn't come up due to the soil crusting. The cure for that is
more rain or irrigation. Some irrigation systems were running because
of that.
The seed companies here usually plant 4 or 6 female rows to every male
row for their seed corn production. I don't see how pollination would
be a problem for the home gardener. Each plant has it's own tassle and
silk for pollination purposes unlike the seed corn.
The difference between seed company production of ears and home gardeners is
that the the former will have huge fields of corn and given that corn is
'wind' pollinated, there has more chance of being pollinated where there is
a huge field rather than in a smaller plot where there is a lesser chance of
pollination happening. Home gardeners would usually do some basic
calculation on how many ears they would eat between crops and how many
plants it would take to get that number of ears and then to figure out how
much space they can spare and how mcuh they can freeze. Thsi year we
overplanted in amajor way and although I have a moutnain of corn in the
freezer, I ended up giving huge amounts of cobs to the chooks.

Home gardeners are advised to plant in close set blocks for this reason as
the closeness of planting combined with the dropping of pollen from above or
nearby can take advantage of even the slightest zephyr of breeze. Many home
gardeners now have much more limited vegetable growing space in their home
gardens and in their freezers than they might like. I know one set of
friends who grow what I consider to be a piddling amount of corn (10-20
plants) so in their minute garden that is the space they can spare and they
like to have a small amount of fresh corn each year.
Post by Dean Hoffman
Why is wetting the foliage on a corn plant a bad thing? Pivot
irrigation systems get the foliage wet whenever they're running.
It can be a bad thing where heat levels are not high enough for excess
moisture to evaporate from the leaves and forming cobs or where high
humidity levels cause moulds/mildews/fungal growth to set in.
Janet Baraclough
2007-05-06 11:53:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Post by Dean Hoffman
Why is wetting the foliage on a corn plant a bad thing? Pivot
irrigation systems get the foliage wet whenever they're running.
It can be a bad thing where heat levels are not high enough for excess
moisture to evaporate from the leaves and forming cobs or where high
humidity levels cause moulds/mildews/fungal growth to set in.
I never need to water corn because we get enough summer rain for
that; so, the leaves are constantly being wetted (and we don't have hot
summers here; 70F is considered a hot day in Scotland and people start
collapsing with heatstrokeon the very rare occasions it reaches 80 F ).
I've never had the corn get mould/mildew/fungal growth though (possibly,
because it's also windy here). I plant corn in blocks, not rows, to
ensure wind pollination.

IME. home gardeners who fail at corn, have either, planted it in a
single row, or, failed to match the variety to their local climate.

Janet. (Scotland; Lat 56 N)
FarmI
2007-05-07 01:20:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet Baraclough
Post by FarmI
Post by Dean Hoffman
Why is wetting the foliage on a corn plant a bad thing? Pivot
irrigation systems get the foliage wet whenever they're running.
It can be a bad thing where heat levels are not high enough for excess
moisture to evaporate from the leaves and forming cobs or where high
humidity levels cause moulds/mildews/fungal growth to set in.
I never need to water corn because we get enough summer rain for
that; so, the leaves are constantly being wetted (and we don't have hot
summers here; 70F is considered a hot day in Scotland and people start
collapsing with heatstrokeon the very rare occasions it reaches 80 F ).
I've never had the corn get mould/mildew/fungal growth though (possibly,
because it's also windy here).
Often those funagl problems are associated with a combination of heat and
moisture and as you mention, lack of air circulation. I've not had any
problems myself because we too have good air circulation where our veg
garden is (in fact I've had to put up a wind barrier to the prevailing
winds.

I plant corn in blocks, not rows, to
Post by Janet Baraclough
ensure wind pollination.
IME. home gardeners who fail at corn, have either, planted it in a
single row, or, failed to match the variety to their local climate.
We were having a spectaular failure with ours at the beggining of the last
season (not in the germination) but somethign was nipping off the tops when
the corn sprouted. I think it was rabbits. In the end we had far more than
needed as we replanted and netted the bed.

Any ideas how to get rid of rabbits? (and no Buddhist suggestions, I'm
thinking more of death to all bunnies :-)).
Janet Baraclough
2007-05-07 14:49:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
We were having a spectaular failure with ours at the beggining of the last
season (not in the germination) but somethign was nipping off the tops when
the corn sprouted. I think it was rabbits. In the end we had far more than
needed as we replanted and netted the bed.
Any ideas how to get rid of rabbits? (and no Buddhist suggestions, I'm
thinking more of death to all bunnies :-)).
Fencing is the only answer, and I swear by it. Whatever it costs,
it's an economy in the long run. Of course, you have to rabbit-proof any
gates too and keep them shut. (In the last garden, we used swing-gates
with a weight attached).

Those Buddhists still have zero rabbits on their island btw :-)

Janet.
FarmI
2007-05-08 05:28:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet Baraclough
Post by FarmI
We were having a spectaular failure with ours at the beggining of the last
season (not in the germination) but somethign was nipping off the tops when
the corn sprouted. I think it was rabbits. In the end we had far more than
needed as we replanted and netted the bed.
Any ideas how to get rid of rabbits? (and no Buddhist suggestions, I'm
thinking more of death to all bunnies :-)).
Fencing is the only answer, and I swear by it. Whatever it costs,
it's an economy in the long run.
Yeah, I think you may be right. The only thing we fenced was the corn and
they didn't seem interested in anything else.

Of course, you have to rabbit-proof any
Post by Janet Baraclough
gates too and keep them shut. (In the last garden, we used swing-gates
with a weight attached).
Those Buddhists still have zero rabbits on their island btw :-)
Dang! Might be something in it after all :-)) We'll have to get Jim on to
it (but since it's not Christian he may not want to go there :-))
Vernon
2007-05-08 01:57:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet Baraclough
Post by FarmI
Post by Dean Hoffman
Why is wetting the foliage on a corn plant a bad thing? Pivot
irrigation systems get the foliage wet whenever they're running.
It can be a bad thing where heat levels are not high enough for excess
moisture to evaporate from the leaves and forming cobs or where high
humidity levels cause moulds/mildews/fungal growth to set in.
I never need to water corn because we get enough summer rain for
that; so, the leaves are constantly being wetted (and we don't have hot
summers here; 70F is considered a hot day in Scotland and people start
collapsing with heatstrokeon the very rare occasions it reaches 80 F ).
I've never had the corn get mould/mildew/fungal growth though (possibly,
because it's also windy here). I plant corn in blocks, not rows, to
ensure wind pollination.
IME. home gardeners who fail at corn, have either, planted it in a
single row, or, failed to match the variety to their local climate.
Janet. (Scotland; Lat 56 N)
Janet,

I have immensely appreciated the quiet authority and civility you have
demonstrated here. I'm beginning to think that certain people need to
refill their lithium and/or other meds.

As a follow-up: My wife suffered a terrible fall, trashed her knee,
and then had to have her appendix removed (two unrelated events).
Since she was the one who was to spearhead this effort we may have
missed the boat on getting any corn in the ground. But that's ok.
Because she's doing better and better.

Regards,
Vernon

Vernon
Dean Hoffman
2007-05-08 02:42:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vernon
Janet,
I have immensely appreciated the quiet authority and civility you have
demonstrated here. I'm beginning to think that certain people need to
refill their lithium and/or other meds.
As a follow-up: My wife suffered a terrible fall, trashed her knee,
and then had to have her appendix removed (two unrelated events).
Since she was the one who was to spearhead this effort we may have
missed the boat on getting any corn in the ground. But that's ok.
Because she's doing better and better.
Regards,
Vernon
Vernon
Texas must have a long growing season. Frost dates should
be readily available from NOAA or the weather service. Your seed
supplier should be able to tell you how many days it takes for your corn
to grow to maturity. There are short season varieties available.
Minnesota raises a lot of corn. No need to give up yet.
Texas has two land grant universities. One is Texas A&M, the other
Prairie View A&M. They probably have some publications similar to the
ones from The University of Nebraska. Their research would be more
valid for your area probably. Rumor has it that one of those schools
has a football team, too.

Dean

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FarmI
2007-05-08 05:24:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vernon
Post by Janet Baraclough
IME. home gardeners who fail at corn, have either, planted it in a
single row, or, failed to match the variety to their local climate.
Janet. (Scotland; Lat 56 N)
Janet,
I have immensely appreciated the quiet authority and civility you have
demonstrated here.
Remember that thought if you decide to hang around here and read for the
number of years that the rest of us have been here.
Post by Vernon
I'm beginning to think that certain people need to
refill their lithium and/or other meds.
Hmmmmmm. Interesting to see that you haven't taken on board any lessons
from Janet on how to be civil. Or perhaps you are just becoming part of the
mess.rural family.
Jim
2007-05-08 17:40:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet Baraclough
Post by Vernon
Janet,
I have immensely appreciated the quiet authority
and civility you have demonstrated here.
Thankyou
I'm beginning to think that certain people need to
Post by Vernon
refill their lithium and/or other meds.
I know, it's very sad. Every penny I receive in subscriptions from my
fan club members, goes towards paying Rudy/Jonball's care costs in the
locked wing, and funding the therapeutic basketry class for poor Sheldon
and Al.
I kind of wanted to take that everything you ever
wanted to know about nitrogen class. <g>
FarmI
2007-05-09 04:41:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Post by Janet Baraclough
Post by Vernon
I have immensely appreciated the quiet authority
and civility you have demonstrated here.
Thankyou
I'm beginning to think that certain people need to
Post by Vernon
refill their lithium and/or other meds.
I know, it's very sad. Every penny I receive in subscriptions from my
fan club members, goes towards paying Rudy/Jonball's care costs in the
locked wing, and funding the therapeutic basketry class for poor Sheldon
and Al.
I kind of wanted to take that everything you ever
wanted to know about nitrogen class. <g>
Jim! You don't need to do that! You know all you need about nitrogenous
material if you read Jon Ball's posts.

And he's frugal too. Just bag up everything that Jon posts here and all
round the Net and then take it out and spread it on your fields. You'll
have more nitrogenous material than you could ever use. Jon Ball's bulldust
isn't quite as good as chook poop, but at least it's free and you don't have
to feed him.
Janet Baraclough
2007-05-08 13:43:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vernon
Janet,
I have immensely appreciated the quiet authority and civility you have
demonstrated here.
Thankyou

I'm beginning to think that certain people need to
Post by Vernon
refill their lithium and/or other meds.
I know, it's very sad. Every penny I receive in subscriptions from my
fan club members, goes towards paying Rudy/Jonball's care costs in the
locked wing, and funding the therapeutic basketry class for poor Sheldon
and Al.
Post by Vernon
As a follow-up: My wife suffered a terrible fall, trashed her knee,
and then had to have her appendix removed (two unrelated events).
Since she was the one who was to spearhead this effort we may have
missed the boat on getting any corn in the ground.
I only planted the seed last week and they're not up yet; so you've
still got time.

Janet.
Jim
2007-05-06 13:54:20 UTC
Permalink
Janet Baraclough wrote:
[....]
Post by Janet Baraclough
IME. home gardeners who fail at corn, have either, planted it in a
single row, or, failed to match the variety to their local climate.
Janet. (Scotland; Lat 56 N)
do you apply sodium nitrate?
Janet Baraclough
2007-05-06 15:02:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
[....]
Post by Janet Baraclough
IME. home gardeners who fail at corn, have either, planted it in a
single row, or, failed to match the variety to their local climate.
Janet. (Scotland; Lat 56 N)
do you apply sodium nitrate?
No.

Janet.
FarmI
2007-05-07 01:36:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Post by Janet Baraclough
IME. home gardeners who fail at corn, have either, planted it in a
single row, or, failed to match the variety to their local climate.
do you apply sodium nitrate?
No.
And even if you wanted to do so, I imagine that there would now be some
restirction on buying it? Or would that only apply on agricultural
quantities?
Jim
2007-05-07 02:03:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Post by Jim
Post by Janet Baraclough
IME. home gardeners who fail at corn, have either, planted it in a
single row, or, failed to match the variety to their local climate.
do you apply sodium nitrate?
No.
And even if you wanted to do so, I imagine that there would now be some
restirction on buying it? Or would that only apply on agricultural
quantities?
sodium nitrate: a deliquescent crystalline salt NaNO3 used
as a fertilizer and an oxidizing agent and in curing meat

ammonium nitrate: a colorless crystalline salt NH4NO3 used
in explosives and fertilizers and in veterinary medicine

now go back and read again the above definitions slowly....



when you want really good sweet garden corn be sure and go
to the extra trouble of making sure you find pure sodium
nitrate. the old product name brand was [Bull Dog Soda®].
Dean Hoffman
2007-05-07 02:19:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Post by FarmI
Post by Jim
Post by Janet Baraclough
IME. home gardeners who fail at corn, have either, planted it in a
single row, or, failed to match the variety to their local climate.
do you apply sodium nitrate?
No.
And even if you wanted to do so, I imagine that there would now be some
restirction on buying it? Or would that only apply on agricultural
quantities?
sodium nitrate: a deliquescent crystalline salt NaNO3 used
as a fertilizer and an oxidizing agent and in curing meat
ammonium nitrate: a colorless crystalline salt NH4NO3 used
in explosives and fertilizers and in veterinary medicine
now go back and read again the above definitions slowly....
when you want really good sweet garden corn be sure and go
to the extra trouble of making sure you find pure sodium
nitrate. the old product name brand was [Bull Dog Soda®].
Uh, Jim. From Answers.com
http://tinyurl.com/ysj453

I think using hot dogs and Spam would work for fertilizer. It's
just a question of how much would be needed.

Dean

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Jim
2007-05-07 03:00:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dean Hoffman
Post by Jim
Post by FarmI
Post by Jim
Post by Janet Baraclough
IME. home gardeners who fail at corn, have either, planted it in a
single row, or, failed to match the variety to their local climate.
do you apply sodium nitrate?
No.
And even if you wanted to do so, I imagine that there would now be some
restirction on buying it? Or would that only apply on agricultural
quantities?
sodium nitrate: a deliquescent crystalline salt NaNO3 used
as a fertilizer and an oxidizing agent and in curing meat
ammonium nitrate: a colorless crystalline salt NH4NO3 used
in explosives and fertilizers and in veterinary medicine
now go back and read again the above definitions slowly....
when you want really good sweet garden corn be sure and go
to the extra trouble of making sure you find pure sodium
nitrate. the old product name brand was [Bull Dog Soda®].
Uh, Jim. From Answers.com
http://tinyurl.com/ysj453
right now the dems are going after ammonium nitrate as a
bomb making material. I do hope they don't see what you
brought to light with the "used in solid rocket propellants,
in the manufacture of explosives" concerning sodium nitrate.
Post by Dean Hoffman
I think using hot dogs and Spam would work for fertilizer.
the real americans dropped two dead fish in the planting hole
just beneath the seed. worked for them though I got no idea
what their corn tasted like.
Post by Dean Hoffman
It's
just a question of how much would be needed.
Dean
Ann
2007-05-07 04:16:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dean Hoffman
Post by FarmI
Post by Jim
Post by Janet Baraclough
IME. home gardeners who fail at corn, have either, planted
it in a
single row, or, failed to match the variety to their local climate.
do you apply sodium nitrate?
No.
And even if you wanted to do so, I imagine that there would now be
some restirction on buying it? Or would that only apply on
agricultural quantities?
sodium nitrate: a deliquescent crystalline salt NaNO3 used as a
fertilizer and an oxidizing agent and in curing meat
ammonium nitrate: a colorless crystalline salt NH4NO3 used in
explosives and fertilizers and in veterinary medicine
now go back and read again the above definitions slowly....
when you want really good sweet garden corn be sure and go to the
extra trouble of making sure you find pure sodium nitrate. the old
product name brand was [Bull Dog Soda®].
Uh, Jim. From Answers.com
http://tinyurl.com/ysj453
right now the dems are going after ammonium nitrate as a bomb making
material.
Huh!? DuPont introduced the first commercially successful (U.S.) ammonium
nitrate blasting agent back in 1935. Its explosive properties have been
known for a long time.

Legislation to authorize Homeland Security to regulate the purchase and
handling of ammonium nitrate has been kicking around since 2005 (S 1141
and H 3197). It just happens that in 2007, the committee heads being
quoted are democrats rather than republicans.
I do hope they don't see what you
brought to light with the "used in solid rocket propellants, in the
manufacture of explosives" concerning sodium nitrate.
Post by Dean Hoffman
I think using hot dogs and Spam would work for fertilizer.
the real americans dropped two dead fish in the planting hole just
beneath the seed. worked for them though I got no idea what their corn
tasted like.
Post by Dean Hoffman
It's
just a question of how much would be needed.
Dean
Jim
2007-05-07 04:49:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ann
Post by Dean Hoffman
Post by FarmI
Post by Jim
Post by Janet Baraclough
IME. home gardeners who fail at corn, have either, planted
it in a
single row, or, failed to match the variety to their local
climate.
do you apply sodium nitrate?
No.
And even if you wanted to do so, I imagine that there would now be
some restirction on buying it? Or would that only apply on
agricultural quantities?
sodium nitrate: a deliquescent crystalline salt NaNO3 used as a
fertilizer and an oxidizing agent and in curing meat
ammonium nitrate: a colorless crystalline salt NH4NO3 used in
explosives and fertilizers and in veterinary medicine
now go back and read again the above definitions slowly....
when you want really good sweet garden corn be sure and go to the
extra trouble of making sure you find pure sodium nitrate. the old
product name brand was [Bull Dog Soda®].
Uh, Jim. From Answers.com
http://tinyurl.com/ysj453
right now the dems are going after ammonium nitrate as a bomb making
material.
Huh!? DuPont introduced the first commercially successful (U.S.) ammonium
nitrate blasting agent back in 1935. Its explosive properties have been
known for a long time.
well yea.
Post by Ann
Legislation to authorize Homeland Security to regulate the purchase and
handling of ammonium nitrate has been kicking around since 2005 (S 1141
and H 3197). It just happens that in 2007, the committee heads being
quoted are democrats rather than republicans.
http://pubs.acs.org/cen/news/85/i19/8519news1.html

back in 2003 it became a requirement that I provide ID
when making any purchase of ammonium nitrate, 1 bag or
10 bags I still was required by my supplier to sign with
my id for this purchase. as a result of the up coming
passage of (H.R. 1680) my current supplier has made the
decision to no longer stock any of the high content
ammonium nitrate fertilizers such as 34-0-0 which I
used on Bermuda. my old supplier was $8.95 for a 50lb
bag. if I continue working with the golf-guy place my
new supplier is going to charge me $29.95 for a 40lb bag.


btw - Rep. Bennie G. Thompson (D-Miss.), chairman of the
homeland security panel says "America has been waiting for
12 years for the bill, and we are finally coming down the
homestretch," so who do you think blocked these new
restrictions?
Post by Ann
I do hope they don't see what you
brought to light with the "used in solid rocket propellants, in the
manufacture of explosives" concerning sodium nitrate.
Post by Dean Hoffman
I think using hot dogs and Spam would work for fertilizer.
the real americans dropped two dead fish in the planting hole just
beneath the seed. worked for them though I got no idea what their corn
tasted like.
Post by Dean Hoffman
It's
just a question of how much would be needed.
Dean
Ann
2007-05-07 14:07:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Post by Ann
Post by Dean Hoffman
Post by FarmI
Post by Jim
Post by Janet Baraclough
IME. home gardeners who fail at corn, have either,
planted it in a
single row, or, failed to match the variety to their
local climate.
do you apply sodium nitrate?
No.
And even if you wanted to do so, I imagine that there would now
be some restirction on buying it? Or would that only apply on
agricultural quantities?
sodium nitrate: a deliquescent crystalline salt NaNO3 used as a
fertilizer and an oxidizing agent and in curing meat
ammonium nitrate: a colorless crystalline salt NH4NO3 used in
explosives and fertilizers and in veterinary medicine
now go back and read again the above definitions slowly....
when you want really good sweet garden corn be sure and go to the
extra trouble of making sure you find pure sodium nitrate. the
old product name brand was [Bull Dog Soda®].
Uh, Jim. From Answers.com
http://tinyurl.com/ysj453
right now the dems are going after ammonium nitrate as a bomb making
material.
Huh!? DuPont introduced the first commercially successful (U.S.)
ammonium nitrate blasting agent back in 1935. Its explosive properties
have been known for a long time.
well yea.
Post by Ann
Legislation to authorize Homeland Security to regulate the purchase and
handling of ammonium nitrate has been kicking around since 2005 (S 1141
and H 3197). It just happens that in 2007, the committee heads being
quoted are democrats rather than republicans.
http://pubs.acs.org/cen/news/85/i19/8519news1.html
Yes, that's the 2007 version of the 2005 (and 2006) legislation that I was
referring to.
Post by Jim
back in 2003 it became a requirement that I provide ID when making any
purchase of ammonium nitrate, 1 bag or 10 bags I still was required by
my supplier to sign with my id for this purchase. as a result of the up
coming passage of (H.R. 1680) my current supplier has made the decision
to no longer stock any of the high content ammonium nitrate fertilizers
such as 34-0-0 which I used on Bermuda. my old supplier was $8.95 for a
50lb bag. if I continue working with the golf-guy place my new supplier
is going to charge me $29.95 for a 40lb bag.
btw - Rep. Bennie G. Thompson (D-Miss.), chairman of the homeland
security panel says "America has been waiting for 12 years for the bill,
and we are finally coming down the homestretch,"
And, Peter King (R-NY), Ranking Member of the Committee on Homeland
Security said: "This legislation is yet another important step in
securing our country against terrorist attacks. The bill will
enable DHS to obtain knowledge of suspect ammonium nitrate purchases and
purchase patterns, aid law enforcement counterterrorism efforts by
creating a paper trail for crimes involving purchases of ammonium nitrate,
and support honest retailers in their efforts to prevent terrorism. I am
pleased to cosponsor this legislation with Chairman Thompson, as we did in
the 109th Congress."
Post by Jim
so who do you think
blocked these new restrictions?
The fertilizer industry, and friends. (This is a guess, I haven't
checked.) I did notice that Rick Santorum was one of the sponsors of the
2005 Senate legislation and he is about as far from being a democrat as a
legislator can get. And Homeland Security - under a republican
administration - is in favor of the legislation.

If you want to blame someone for the inconvenience of having to use
another fertilizer, blame Timothy McVeigh and whoever supplied him with
the NH4NO3.


<...>
Jim
2007-05-08 17:38:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ann
Post by Jim
Post by Ann
Post by Dean Hoffman
Post by FarmI
Post by Jim
Post by Janet Baraclough
IME. home gardeners who fail at corn, have either,
planted it in a
single row, or, failed to match the variety to their
local climate.
do you apply sodium nitrate?
No.
And even if you wanted to do so, I imagine that there would now
be some restirction on buying it? Or would that only apply on
agricultural quantities?
sodium nitrate: a deliquescent crystalline salt NaNO3 used as a
fertilizer and an oxidizing agent and in curing meat
ammonium nitrate: a colorless crystalline salt NH4NO3 used in
explosives and fertilizers and in veterinary medicine
now go back and read again the above definitions slowly....
when you want really good sweet garden corn be sure and go to the
extra trouble of making sure you find pure sodium nitrate. the
old product name brand was [Bull Dog Soda®].
Uh, Jim. From Answers.com
http://tinyurl.com/ysj453
right now the dems are going after ammonium nitrate as a bomb making
material.
Huh!? DuPont introduced the first commercially successful (U.S.)
ammonium nitrate blasting agent back in 1935. Its explosive properties
have been known for a long time.
well yea.
Post by Ann
Legislation to authorize Homeland Security to regulate the purchase and
handling of ammonium nitrate has been kicking around since 2005 (S 1141
and H 3197). It just happens that in 2007, the committee heads being
quoted are democrats rather than republicans.
http://pubs.acs.org/cen/news/85/i19/8519news1.html
Yes, that's the 2007 version of the 2005 (and 2006) legislation that I was
referring to.
Post by Jim
back in 2003 it became a requirement that I provide ID when making any
purchase of ammonium nitrate, 1 bag or 10 bags I still was required by
my supplier to sign with my id for this purchase. as a result of the up
coming passage of (H.R. 1680) my current supplier has made the decision
to no longer stock any of the high content ammonium nitrate fertilizers
such as 34-0-0 which I used on Bermuda. my old supplier was $8.95 for a
50lb bag. if I continue working with the golf-guy place my new supplier
is going to charge me $29.95 for a 40lb bag.
btw - Rep. Bennie G. Thompson (D-Miss.), chairman of the homeland
security panel says "America has been waiting for 12 years for the bill,
and we are finally coming down the homestretch,"
And, Peter King (R-NY), Ranking Member of the Committee on Homeland
Security said: "This legislation is yet another important step in
securing our country against terrorist attacks. The bill will
enable DHS to obtain knowledge of suspect ammonium nitrate purchases and
purchase patterns, aid law enforcement counterterrorism efforts by
creating a paper trail for crimes involving purchases of ammonium nitrate,
and support honest retailers in their efforts to prevent terrorism. I am
pleased to cosponsor this legislation with Chairman Thompson, as we did in
the 109th Congress."
this Peter King (R-NY) is kind of long winded. I wonder
if Bennie G. Thompson (D-Miss.) actually got to say all
he was wanting to say or did the repub cut him off?
Post by Ann
Post by Jim
so who do you think
blocked these new restrictions?
The fertilizer industry, and friends. (This is a guess, I haven't
checked.)
http://pubs.acs.org/cen/news/85/i19/8519news1.html
"The fertilizer industry supports the legislation"
Post by Ann
I did notice that Rick Santorum was one of the sponsors of the
2005 Senate legislation and he is about as far
from being a democrat as a legislator can get.
there's really not all that much difference between a demo
and a repub. both ride for free at the expense of those who
do the real work. and nancy wants a bigger airplane.
Post by Ann
And Homeland Security - under a republican
administration - is in favor of the legislation.
Homeland Security was invented just after 9-11 and has
until the recent midterm election always been under a
repub scheme. sad how the reaction created more
100,000 dollar a year jobs for more government privilege
class persons.
Post by Ann
If you want to blame someone for the inconvenience of having to use
another fertilizer, blame Timothy McVeigh and whoever supplied him with
the NH4NO3.
in preparation for the situation I sent to the golf-guy
management a letter containing a copy of the legislation
and an explanation for how the cost of materials is going
to increase. I kind of hope they'll respond by seeking
the service elsewhere.
Ann
2007-05-08 22:29:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Post by Ann
Post by Jim
Post by Ann
Post by Dean Hoffman
Post by FarmI
Post by Jim
Post by Janet Baraclough
IME. home gardeners who fail at corn, have either,
planted it in a
single row, or, failed to match the variety to their
local climate.
do you apply sodium nitrate?
No.
And even if you wanted to do so, I imagine that there would now
be some restirction on buying it? Or would that only apply on
agricultural quantities?
sodium nitrate: a deliquescent crystalline salt NaNO3 used as a
fertilizer and an oxidizing agent and in curing meat
ammonium nitrate: a colorless crystalline salt NH4NO3 used in
explosives and fertilizers and in veterinary medicine
now go back and read again the above definitions slowly....
when you want really good sweet garden corn be sure and go to the
extra trouble of making sure you find pure sodium nitrate. the
old product name brand was [Bull Dog Soda®].
Uh, Jim. From Answers.com
http://tinyurl.com/ysj453
right now the dems are going after ammonium nitrate as a bomb making
material.
Huh!? DuPont introduced the first commercially successful (U.S.)
ammonium nitrate blasting agent back in 1935. Its explosive properties
have been known for a long time.
well yea.
Post by Ann
Legislation to authorize Homeland Security to regulate the purchase and
handling of ammonium nitrate has been kicking around since 2005 (S 1141
and H 3197). It just happens that in 2007, the committee heads being
quoted are democrats rather than republicans.
http://pubs.acs.org/cen/news/85/i19/8519news1.html
Yes, that's the 2007 version of the 2005 (and 2006) legislation that I was
referring to.
Post by Jim
back in 2003 it became a requirement that I provide ID when making any
purchase of ammonium nitrate, 1 bag or 10 bags I still was required by
my supplier to sign with my id for this purchase. as a result of the up
coming passage of (H.R. 1680) my current supplier has made the decision
to no longer stock any of the high content ammonium nitrate fertilizers
such as 34-0-0 which I used on Bermuda. my old supplier was $8.95 for a
50lb bag. if I continue working with the golf-guy place my new supplier
is going to charge me $29.95 for a 40lb bag.
btw - Rep. Bennie G. Thompson (D-Miss.), chairman of the homeland
security panel says "America has been waiting for 12 years for the bill,
and we are finally coming down the homestretch,"
And, Peter King (R-NY), Ranking Member of the Committee on Homeland
Security said: "This legislation is yet another important step in
securing our country against terrorist attacks. The bill will
enable DHS to obtain knowledge of suspect ammonium nitrate purchases and
purchase patterns, aid law enforcement counterterrorism efforts by
creating a paper trail for crimes involving purchases of ammonium nitrate,
and support honest retailers in their efforts to prevent terrorism. I am
pleased to cosponsor this legislation with Chairman Thompson, as we did in
the 109th Congress."
this Peter King (R-NY) is kind of long winded. I wonder
if Bennie G. Thompson (D-Miss.) actually got to say all
he was wanting to say or did the repub cut him off?
I don't think the ranking member gets to cut off the chairman.
Post by Jim
Post by Ann
Post by Jim
so who do you think
blocked these new restrictions?
The fertilizer industry, and friends. (This is a guess, I haven't
checked.)
http://pubs.acs.org/cen/news/85/i19/8519news1.html
"The fertilizer industry supports the legislation"
Then I'm glad I included that disclaimer. <g> I have now looked back and
it looks like the support was motivated at least in part by concern that
it would cease to be manufactured if something wasn't done. Some
producers had already stopped making it.
Post by Jim
Post by Ann
I did notice that Rick Santorum was one of the sponsors of the 2005
Senate legislation and he is about as far from being a democrat as a
legislator can get.
there's really not all that much difference between a demo and a repub.
both ride for free at the expense of those who do the real work. and
nancy wants a bigger airplane.
So, why did you blame it on the dems?
Post by Jim
Post by Ann
And Homeland Security - under a republican administration - is in favor
of the legislation.
Homeland Security was invented just after 9-11 and has until the recent
midterm election always been under a repub scheme. sad how the reaction
created more 100,000 dollar a year jobs for more government privilege
class persons.
Post by Ann
If you want to blame someone for the inconvenience of having to use
another fertilizer, blame Timothy McVeigh and whoever supplied him with
the NH4NO3.
in preparation for the situation I sent to the golf-guy management a
letter containing a copy of the legislation and an explanation for how
the cost of materials is going to increase. I kind of hope they'll
respond by seeking the service elsewhere.
Are they otherwise good customers, or would you just as soon be rid of
them?
FarmI
2007-05-08 01:41:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Post by FarmI
Post by Jim
Post by Janet Baraclough
IME. home gardeners who fail at corn, have either, planted it in a
single row, or, failed to match the variety to their local climate.
do you apply sodium nitrate?
No.
And even if you wanted to do so, I imagine that there would now be some
restirction on buying it? Or would that only apply on agricultural
quantities?
sodium nitrate: a deliquescent crystalline salt NaNO3 used
as a fertilizer and an oxidizing agent and in curing meat
ammonium nitrate: a colorless crystalline salt NH4NO3 used
in explosives and fertilizers and in veterinary medicine
now go back and read again the above definitions slowly....
I suggest you do some research on sodium nitrate:
http://www.answers.com/topic/sodium-nitrate
Sodium nitrate
A white crystalline compound, NaNO3, used in solid rocket propellants, in
the manufacture of explosives and glass and pottery enamel, and as
fertilizer. Also called caliche, Chile saltpeter; Also called saltpeter,
soda niter.
Post by Jim
when you want really good sweet garden corn be sure and go
to the extra trouble of making sure you find pure sodium
nitrate. the old product name brand was [Bull Dog Soda®].
Thank but I don't need to use it to get good sweet corn.
Jim
2007-05-08 17:38:12 UTC
Permalink
[....]
Post by FarmI
Post by Jim
Post by FarmI
Post by Jim
do you apply sodium nitrate?
No.
And even if you wanted to do so, I imagine that there would now be some
restirction on buying it? Or would that only apply on agricultural
quantities?
sodium nitrate: a deliquescent crystalline salt NaNO3 used
as a fertilizer and an oxidizing agent and in curing meat
ammonium nitrate: a colorless crystalline salt NH4NO3 used
in explosives and fertilizers and in veterinary medicine
now go back and read again the above definitions slowly....
http://www.answers.com/topic/sodium-nitrate
yea, Dean shared that with me. I guess Merriam Webster
was not the complete authority on the matter..

oh well...
FarmI
2007-05-09 03:58:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Post by FarmI
Post by Jim
Post by FarmI
And even if you wanted to do so, I imagine that there would now be some
restirction on buying it? Or would that only apply on agricultural
quantities?
sodium nitrate: a deliquescent crystalline salt NaNO3 used
as a fertilizer and an oxidizing agent and in curing meat
ammonium nitrate: a colorless crystalline salt NH4NO3 used
in explosives and fertilizers and in veterinary medicine
now go back and read again the above definitions slowly....
http://www.answers.com/topic/sodium-nitrate
yea, Dean shared that with me. I guess Merriam Webster
was not the complete authority on the matter..
oh well...
:-)) Remember that google is your friend.
Janet Baraclough
2007-05-07 15:20:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Post by Jim
Post by Janet Baraclough
IME. home gardeners who fail at corn, have either, planted it in a
single row, or, failed to match the variety to their local climate.
do you apply sodium nitrate?
No.
And even if you wanted to do so, I imagine that there would now be some
restirction on buying it? Or would that only apply on agricultural
quantities?
Not at all. The terrorists who got life sentences in the UK courts
last week, had purchased 600 Kg of it with no difficulty. They stored
it in a rented lock-up but the rental company became suspicious,
notified the police, and it was (supposedly) replaced with cat-litter.
for safety, while Intel was gathered on the rest of the cell.

http://www.channel4.com/news/media/flash/2007/04/crevice/crevice_final.html

The UK govt reckons there are so many everyday materials that could be
turned to terrorist use, there's no point banning them and giving
terrorists the satisfaction of causing so much disruption to industry.

Janet.
FarmI
2007-05-08 05:26:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet Baraclough
Post by FarmI
Post by Jim
Post by Janet Baraclough
IME. home gardeners who fail at corn, have either, planted it in a
single row, or, failed to match the variety to their local climate.
do you apply sodium nitrate?
No.
And even if you wanted to do so, I imagine that there would now be some
restirction on buying it? Or would that only apply on agricultural
quantities?
Not at all. The terrorists who got life sentences in the UK courts
last week, had purchased 600 Kg of it with no difficulty. They stored
it in a rented lock-up but the rental company became suspicious,
notified the police, and it was (supposedly) replaced with cat-litter.
for safety, while Intel was gathered on the rest of the cell.
http://www.channel4.com/news/media/flash/2007/04/crevice/crevice_final.html
The UK govt reckons there are so many everyday materials that could be
turned to terrorist use, there's no point banning them and giving
terrorists the satisfaction of causing so much disruption to industry.
Good for them! It's nice to see a government that has a sane approach to
modern day life. Wonder if all that IRA terrorist activity of the 1970s had
an impact on their thinking.
Jim
2007-05-07 00:03:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet Baraclough
Post by Jim
[....]
Post by Janet Baraclough
IME. home gardeners who fail at corn, have either, planted it in a
single row, or, failed to match the variety to their local climate.
Janet. (Scotland; Lat 56 N)
do you apply sodium nitrate?
No.
Janet.
what do you use to provide for the corn's nitrogen requirements?
Ann
2007-05-07 01:27:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Post by Janet Baraclough
Post by Jim
[....]
Post by Janet Baraclough
IME. home gardeners who fail at corn, have either, planted it in a
single row, or, failed to match the variety to their local climate.
Janet. (Scotland; Lat 56 N)
do you apply sodium nitrate?
No.
Janet.
what do you use to provide for the corn's nitrogen requirements?
Ammonium nitrate, which is also handy to have around in case one wants
to do some excavation? <g>
Jim
2007-05-07 02:24:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ann
Post by Jim
Post by Janet Baraclough
Post by Jim
[....]
Post by Janet Baraclough
IME. home gardeners who fail at corn, have either, planted it in a
single row, or, failed to match the variety to their local climate.
Janet. (Scotland; Lat 56 N)
do you apply sodium nitrate?
No.
Janet.
what do you use to provide for the corn's nitrogen requirements?
Ammonium nitrate, which is also handy to have around in case one wants
to do some excavation? <g>
as long as you are careful with your application rates ammonium
nitrate is a fair choice in the lawn care world.

I don't use ammonium nitrate in growing my food because ammonia
is kind of rough on my digestive system. as well as how ammonium
nitrate detracts from the natural sugar contained in certain
vegetables by causing the sugars to rapidly change into starch
just after the harvest.


am•mo•ni•um: derived from ammonia by combination with a hydrogen
ion and known in compounds (as salts) that resemble in properties
the compounds of the alkali metals
FarmI
2007-05-07 01:36:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Post by Jim
Post by Janet Baraclough
IME. home gardeners who fail at corn, have either, planted it in a
single row, or, failed to match the variety to their local climate.
do you apply sodium nitrate?
what do you use to provide for the corn's nitrogen requirements?
This year I used chook manure, horse manure, and the prize aquisition,
elephant manure.
enigma
2007-05-07 10:43:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Post by Jim
[....]
Post by Janet Baraclough
IME. home gardeners who fail at corn, have either,
planted it in a
single row, or, failed to match the variety to their
local climate.
Janet. (Scotland; Lat 56 N)
do you apply sodium nitrate?
No.
what do you use to provide for the corn's nitrogen
requirements?
most farmers around here use a heavy spring application of
manure (usually cow or chicken).
lee
Jim
2007-05-07 12:59:51 UTC
Permalink
[....]
Post by enigma
Post by Jim
what do you use to provide for the corn's nitrogen
requirements?
most farmers around here use a heavy spring application of
manure (usually cow or chicken).
lee
I have heard how chicken manure is high in nitrogen.
thanks for you input to my question.

wishing for you a nice day.
Jim
Dean Hoffman
2007-05-07 17:58:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
[....]
Post by enigma
Post by Jim
what do you use to provide for the corn's nitrogen
requirements?
most farmers around here use a heavy spring application of
manure (usually cow or chicken).
lee
I have heard how chicken manure is high in nitrogen.
thanks for you input to my question.
wishing for you a nice day.
Jim
Most farmers around here use anhydrous ammonia as the main
fertilizer. They'll spray some liquid starter on at planting. Some are
getting away from using the NH3. They'll apply the liquid with a
ground sprayer or through their irrigation systems. Using the liquid
gets away from the losses of NH3.


Dean

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Janet Baraclough
2007-05-07 14:34:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Post by Janet Baraclough
Post by Jim
[....]
Post by Janet Baraclough
IME. home gardeners who fail at corn, have either, planted it in a
single row, or, failed to match the variety to their local climate.
Janet. (Scotland; Lat 56 N)
do you apply sodium nitrate?
No.
Janet.
what do you use to provide for the corn's nitrogen requirements?
Chicken manure. I give corn a rich bed with plenty of homemade
compost, plus surface mulches of seaweed, comfrey, grass clippings. The
compost is made from kitchen and garden waste,, animal manure etc. My
garden soil looks like rich chocolate cake, good enough to eat and home
to zillions of worms who drag all the stuff down deep.

Janet.
Jim
2007-05-08 17:39:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet Baraclough
Post by Jim
Post by Janet Baraclough
Post by Jim
[....]
Post by Janet Baraclough
IME. home gardeners who fail at corn, have either, planted it in a
single row, or, failed to match the variety to their local climate.
Janet. (Scotland; Lat 56 N)
do you apply sodium nitrate?
No.
Janet.
what do you use to provide for the corn's nitrogen requirements?
Chicken manure. I give corn a rich bed with plenty of homemade
compost, plus surface mulches of seaweed, comfrey, grass clippings. The
compost is made from kitchen and garden waste,, animal manure etc. My
garden soil looks like rich chocolate cake, good enough to eat and home
to zillions of worms who drag all the stuff down deep.
Janet.
eastern NC Farm dirt is almost black. when we get
the rain, I've seen corn 9 foot tall there.

every once in awhile I'll go and buy some fishing
worms and dump them in the garden. worms do good
things in dirt.

thanks for your answer.
FarmI
2007-05-09 03:55:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
eastern NC Farm dirt is almost black. when we get
the rain, I've seen corn 9 foot tall there.
Yuo lucky man!
Post by Jim
every once in awhile I'll go and buy some fishing
worms and dump them in the garden. worms do good
things in dirt.
Why don't you just work on feeding and breeding up your own worms?

When I first started my veggie garden here, the 'soil' was as hard as
concrete and a sick calf scour yellow colour and not a worm in sight. Each
year, I've mulched, manured, spread compost and Autumn leaves etc and now I
have a good population of worms. I see my garden activities as being worm
breeding and soil feeding and I find that by doing that I then don't ahve to
think in terms of plant feeding.
Dean Hoffman
2007-05-07 02:48:54 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by FarmI
Post by Dean Hoffman
Sweet corn water use pretty much matches field corn water use.
http://tinyurl.com/yvjqno
The irrigation section is a bit over 3/4 of the way down.
Field corn uses a lot of water after it's shoulder high. There's a
water use chart here: http://tinyurl.com/yolyyc The local paper
publishes a water use chart almost daily. The highest use per day I
remember was about .35".
The pattern you suggest would deprive the plant of the water it needs at
the most critical time of production.
As much as it absolutely pains me to defend anything that Sheldon has ever
written, I don't believe that what he wrote above really conflicts with the
information which is given in the cite you provide. (Which is most
interesting - thank you for posting the cite). I guess we could quibble
about the sentence about once it's as high as a man it's best if it doesn't
rain till harvest, but it's close to harvest then anyway and what he means
by 'rain' may be different to what I (or you) mean by rain. For my
conditions 'rain' means a shower of up to an hour if I'm lucky, but for him
it could perhaps mean days of rain. I am told that there are still some
places in the world where such a rain pattern still happens although I am
begining to have doubts about that.
I'm used to thinking in terms of field corn. Harvest will
probably be about 2 months or so after the corn reaches shoulder height.
Sweet corn is, what, about a month after tassling for home grown?
Post by FarmI
He does mention the use of infrequent but deep watering but that corn hates
waterlogging. He didn't use that term but that is what I took him to mean
from the example he gave.
So long as soil moisture levels remain sufficient for the corn to keep
growing strongly and taking up nutrients, there is no need to water on a
daily or even frequent basis unless the soil is not moisture retentive.
Soil with a high sandy content may be one situation where daily watering is
required. It is doubtful that this would apply though in home gardens where
keen home gardeners know about building up humus content. Humus (and its
retention and increase) is usually more of a problem for broadacre farmers.
I don't follow why organic matter would be more of a problem for
farmers than gardeners. There has been a big change in the last 30
years or so from the plow it up farming to conservation tillage.
Post by FarmI
Post by Dean Hoffman
I work for an irrigation company in Nebraska. Irrigation season
usually starts for real about the third week in June. Corn will be
somewhere between waist and shoulder high then. The crop canopy should
be close to shading the ground by then depending on the row spacing.
Irrigation will be heavy through about the first week in August then
tapers off. Crop consultants usually tell farmers to irrigate through
the first week in September. That's usually when the black layer forms
at the kernel base. http://tinyurl.com/2bc29o
We had a good rain here about ten days ago. Some of the crop was in
but wouldn't come up due to the soil crusting. The cure for that is
more rain or irrigation. Some irrigation systems were running because
of that.
The seed companies here usually plant 4 or 6 female rows to every male
row for their seed corn production. I don't see how pollination would
be a problem for the home gardener. Each plant has it's own tassle and
silk for pollination purposes unlike the seed corn.
The difference between seed company production of ears and home gardeners is
that the the former will have huge fields of corn and given that corn is
'wind' pollinated, there has more chance of being pollinated where there is
a huge field rather than in a smaller plot where there is a lesser chance of
pollination happening. Home gardeners would usually do some basic
calculation on how many ears they would eat between crops and how many
plants it would take to get that number of ears and then to figure out how
much space they can spare and how mcuh they can freeze. Thsi year we
overplanted in amajor way and although I have a moutnain of corn in the
freezer, I ended up giving huge amounts of cobs to the chooks.
Home gardeners are advised to plant in close set blocks for this reason as
the closeness of planting combined with the dropping of pollen from above or
nearby can take advantage of even the slightest zephyr of breeze. Many home
gardeners now have much more limited vegetable growing space in their home
gardens and in their freezers than they might like. I know one set of
friends who grow what I consider to be a piddling amount of corn (10-20
plants) so in their minute garden that is the space they can spare and they
like to have a small amount of fresh corn each year.
Post by Dean Hoffman
Why is wetting the foliage on a corn plant a bad thing? Pivot
irrigation systems get the foliage wet whenever they're running.
It can be a bad thing where heat levels are not high enough for excess
moisture to evaporate from the leaves and forming cobs or where high
humidity levels cause moulds/mildews/fungal growth to set in.
We actually can have the opposite problem here. A pest called
spider mite likes dry weather. I don't remember a time when mould and
such would set in due to too much moisture. Farmers farther east in
Iowa and Illinois don't have to irrigate their crops due to heavier
rainfall. Maybe too much moisture late in the season could be a
problem there.

Dean

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FarmI
2007-05-08 01:31:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dean Hoffman
In article
Post by FarmI
Post by Dean Hoffman
Sweet corn water use pretty much matches field corn water use.
http://tinyurl.com/yvjqno
The irrigation section is a bit over 3/4 of the way down.
Field corn uses a lot of water after it's shoulder high. There's a
water use chart here: http://tinyurl.com/yolyyc The local paper
publishes a water use chart almost daily. The highest use per day I
remember was about .35".
The pattern you suggest would deprive the plant of the water it needs at
the most critical time of production.
As much as it absolutely pains me to defend anything that Sheldon has ever
written, I don't believe that what he wrote above really conflicts with the
information which is given in the cite you provide. (Which is most
interesting - thank you for posting the cite). I guess we could quibble
about the sentence about once it's as high as a man it's best if it doesn't
rain till harvest, but it's close to harvest then anyway and what he means
by 'rain' may be different to what I (or you) mean by rain. For my
conditions 'rain' means a shower of up to an hour if I'm lucky, but for him
it could perhaps mean days of rain. I am told that there are still some
places in the world where such a rain pattern still happens although I am
begining to have doubts about that.
I'm used to thinking in terms of field corn. Harvest will
probably be about 2 months or so after the corn reaches shoulder height.
Sweet corn is, what, about a month after tassling for home grown?
Yeah about that IIRC.
Post by Dean Hoffman
Post by FarmI
He does mention the use of infrequent but deep watering but that corn hates
waterlogging. He didn't use that term but that is what I took him to mean
from the example he gave.
So long as soil moisture levels remain sufficient for the corn to keep
growing strongly and taking up nutrients, there is no need to water on a
daily or even frequent basis unless the soil is not moisture retentive.
Soil with a high sandy content may be one situation where daily watering is
required. It is doubtful that this would apply though in home gardens where
keen home gardeners know about building up humus content. Humus (and its
retention and increase) is usually more of a problem for broadacre farmers.
I don't follow why organic matter would be more of a problem for
farmers than gardeners.
Gardeners can haul in all sorts of things that add to the humus content of
the soil (manure/leaves/compost etc) but that is much more difficult to do
for a broadacre application. Here in Oz, where we have ancient leached
soils, humus level is a big problem even with the canhge you mention to no
or low till practices. The soil has such a low humus level that water
retention is a real problem and given that we have had 6-10 years drought
across most of the country it has caused lots of heart ache.

There has been a big change in the last 30
Post by Dean Hoffman
years or so from the plow it up farming to conservation tillage.
Janet Baraclough
2007-04-29 18:14:23 UTC
Permalink
Can I presume that the plants' roots will "seek" the water?  Under
this scheme, since there will be a hose in each of 13 furrows, each of
the twelve rows, each 8' x 100', will have two sources of dripped
irrigation.
   Something like a tree, which has a large, extensive root system, will
"seek water". But what you are proposing is that very small seedlings
will have a  span of roots capable fo finding water 4 ft away.
They won't. In a gutless sandy soil  the plants will never find the
water in time. They will need some other source of watyer, until the
roots travel 4 ft to the birrigation damp in the furrow 4 ft away.
Many field crops have far more extensive and deeper root systems than
trees relative to plant size... corn roots go down as far as corn
grows tall...
Not in my experience. Corn roots grow wide, but shallow.

melon and squash root systems grow more extensively than
than the plant does above ground
The root sytem grows as the plant develops. Little seedlings need
water, and will die, and never become mature plants, unless their roots
find enough water at an early stage of the plants development; as they
would, in a humusy, water retentive soil.

. But the OP has a sandy dry impoverished soil. Seedlings in that kind
of soil, will need watering long before they find the moisture from the
dripline 4 ft away.

Janet.
v***@tucklings.com
2007-05-01 02:30:27 UTC
Permalink
Can I presume that the plants' roots will "seek" the water? ?Under
this scheme, since there will be a hose in each of 13 furrows, each of
the twelve rows, each 8' x 100', will have two sources of dripped
irrigation.
? ?Something like a tree, which has a large, extensive root system, will
"seek water". But what you are proposing is that very small seedlings
will have a ?span of roots capable fo finding water 4 ft away.
They won't. In a gutless sandy soil ?the plants will never find the
water in time. They will need some other source of watyer, until the
roots travel 4 ft to the birrigation damp in the furrow 4 ft away.
Many field crops have far more extensive and deeper root systems than
trees relative to plant size... corn roots go down as far as corn
grows tall... melon and squash root systems grow more extensively than
than the plant does above ground
The other alternative is to place the hoses exactly in the middle of
each row. ?But under that scenario the soaker hoses would be on top of
the ground. ?The idea of having 'em embedded in the furrows seems to
make more sense.
? ?Except that when the drip hose is off, a small-particle soil like dry
sand will fall inside the holes and block it.When all the hoses are
buried, you won't know where the blockages are.
I'm not sure if you're discussing drip irrigation or soaker hose
irrigation, very different from each other. I can't imagine drip
irrigation working for field farm crops, but I do know from personal
experience that soaker hose works very well. Soaker hose works better
buried as there's less evaporation, and soaker hose will not clog from
contact with soil (soaker hose also lasts longer buried as it's
protected from UV). Soaker hose irrigation as with all forms of
irrigation needs to be experimented with to find the optimum rate of
water flow and operation time, plus time of day to use. One of the
major benefits with using soaker hose is that it doesn't wet the
plants so can be used to best advantage towards the end of the day as
the sun is setting... most farm crops take in water at night but not
during daylight. With most farm crops watering during daylight just
wastes water, and overhead irrigation can promote mold and other
diseases plus it uses far more water than soaker hoses. For the size
plot the OP describes soaker hose would be ideal. I have enough
soaker hose stored in my barn to cover about half his needs.
Leevalley.com sells the best quality, longest lasting soaker hose I've
ever used, and at lowest cost... makes the stuff sold at Home Depot,
Lowes, and elsewhere look like toys r us soaker hose.
Soaker hose:http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page.aspx?c=&p=44889&cat=2,2280,33160
I see they have a new product, looks good but not sure it's as rugged
around tractors:http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page.aspx?c=&p=10383&cat=2,2280,49657...
Perhaps both types can be used, each for different crops.
Wow! Your post is quite encouraging. Thanks!
Vernon
Goedjn
2007-04-30 16:23:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by v***@tucklings.com
A few days ago, I posted an inquiry about this and harvested some
useful links thanks to a poster.
I have designed what I hope to be a viable system to drip irrigate a
100' by 100' garden. The garden will be intercropped with corn,
beans, squash, and watermelons.
The corn and beans will be planted together in the same alternating
mound. Mounds of squash or watermelons will be intercropped between
the corn/bean mounds.
My question has to do with where to place the soaker hoses. It would
seem to make sense to lay the hoses (13 of 'em) in the furrows between
the 8 foot rows.
Unless you have more water than you know what to do with,
you should deliver the water as close to the plantings as you can.
The aisles between the rows are only there for access.
If you're using a tractor, you'll crush anything there.
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