Discussion:
Sheep have no tails ? ? ?
(too old to reply)
l***@invalid.com
2008-07-13 08:05:08 UTC
Permalink
I was at a county fair yesterday and was looking at the sheep. I have
seen sheep at fairs in the past but never looked that closely at them.
I've had horses, cattle, donkeys, ducks, chickens and dogs and cats.
I have never had sheep.

Well, I thought ALL animals had tails. None of the sheep had tails
except two of them that were labelled Shetland Sheep.

Do people cut them off?
Are they just fur? No bone or flesh?
Or do they dock them like they do on some dogs?
I guess I never noticed this before.
I have never had any interest in sheep, but I have been wanting to try
something new and thought a couple sheep might be fun to have. Even
though they can be awfully noisy.
They look weird without tails.

Now, the one I liked the most was that one male Shetland Sheep. He
had large curved horns, and was really cute. I would have taken him
home on the spot if he was for sale, and he liked me too. I peted him
and he was following me as I walked to the next stall. I had to go
back and pet him some more. I liked him better than the common sheep
and he seemed much friendlier, more intelligent, and lots of
personality. More like a dog or a horse who understands when people
talk to them. I'm still thinking about him. If I could have found
the owners I would have tried to buy him. The common sheep dont seem
to be very friendly. If I decide to get sheep, I think it will be a
Shetland, but I still want him the most....
FarmI
2008-07-13 08:33:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@invalid.com
I was at a county fair yesterday and was looking at the sheep. I have
seen sheep at fairs in the past but never looked that closely at them.
I've had horses, cattle, donkeys, ducks, chickens and dogs and cats.
I have never had sheep.
Well, I thought ALL animals had tails. None of the sheep had tails
except two of them that were labelled Shetland Sheep.
Do people cut them off?
Yes, or use bands where once the band is on, the rest of the tail atrophies
and eventually drops off. The tail docking is usually done at the same time
as the male lambs are denutted.
Post by l***@invalid.com
Are they just fur? No bone or flesh?
The latter.
Post by l***@invalid.com
Or do they dock them like they do on some dogs?
See first para.
Post by l***@invalid.com
I guess I never noticed this before.
I have never had any interest in sheep, but I have been wanting to try
something new and thought a couple sheep might be fun to have. Even
though they can be awfully noisy.
They look weird without tails.
They look fine without tails and there is a reason why they don't have
tails.

There is nothing worse than seeing a sheep with fly strike around it's rear
regions and under the tail of undocked sheep is a prime fly strike area.
Those morons from the animal rights group PETA are recently raising merry
hell about the practice of mulseing sheep in Australia which is cutting off
the skin around the back legs. There is a very good reason why this, and
tail docking is done - it's because of fly strike. The stupid morons at
PETA should see a sheep being eaten alive by maggots before they say that
mulseing is cruel
Terri
2008-07-13 14:51:40 UTC
Permalink
"FarmI" <***@itshall be given> wrote in news:4879bde2$0$29861$***@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au:

Those morons from the animal rights group PETA are recently
raising merry hell about the practice of mulseing sheep in Australia
which is cutting off the skin around the back legs. There is a very
good reason why this, and tail docking is done - it's because of fly
strike. The stupid morons at PETA should see a sheep being eaten alive
by maggots before they say that mulseing is cruel
Gah. I knew why sheeps tails were docked. While I'm not surprised at
much that PETA-Pukes do, this does manage to revolt the senses. Someone
needs to shove a maggoty sheep ass right under their noses.

Which leads me to a question about cows...
You'd think being the Grand-daughter of ranchers that I'd know the
answer to this but I don't.
Are bulls castrated for reasons that have to do with how the meat tastes?
Does it increase the amount of meat on the hoof?
In short, why is it routinely done?
NapalmHeart
2008-07-13 16:41:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terri
Are bulls castrated for reasons that have to do with how
the meat tastes?
Does it increase the amount of meat on the hoof?
In short, why is it routinely done?
To improve meat quality, make them more manageable, and
prevent indiscriminate breeding. There may be more reasons,
but these are the ones that come quickly to mind. One of
the most dangerous animals I've seen is a full-grown
Holstein bull when there are cows in heat and he can't get
to them.

Ken
Janet Baraclough
2008-07-13 17:49:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Those morons from the animal rights group PETA are recently
raising merry hell about the practice of mulseing sheep in Australia
which is cutting off the skin around the back legs. There is a very
good reason why this, and tail docking is done - it's because of fly
strike. The stupid morons at PETA should see a sheep being eaten alive
by maggots before they say that mulseing is cruel
Gah. I knew why sheeps tails were docked. While I'm not surprised at
much that PETA-Pukes do, this does manage to revolt the senses. Someone
needs to shove a maggoty sheep ass right under their noses.
Which leads me to a question about cows...
You'd think being the Grand-daughter of ranchers that I'd know the
answer to this but I don't.
Are bulls castrated for reasons that have to do with how the meat tastes?
Does it increase the amount of meat on the hoof?
In short, why is it routinely done?
Wot Fran said. Also, IIRC animals which are cut young, grow into a
different conformation of muscle /fat .
Janet.
FarmI
2008-07-14 04:33:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Those morons from the animal rights group PETA are recently
raising merry hell about the practice of mulseing sheep in Australia
which is cutting off the skin around the back legs. There is a very
good reason why this, and tail docking is done - it's because of fly
strike. The stupid morons at PETA should see a sheep being eaten alive
by maggots before they say that mulseing is cruel
Gah. I knew why sheeps tails were docked. While I'm not surprised at
much that PETA-Pukes do, this does manage to revolt the senses. Someone
needs to shove a maggoty sheep ass right under their noses.
:-)) I've always though the same. It reallyt icks me off when some
celebrity nobody joins the PETA bandwaggon when they and the PETA morons
know nothing about the reality of a sheep being eaten alive by maggots.

It's an appalling sight and the short term pain of being mulsed or docked at
least gives the poor sheep a fighting chance to avoid flystrike.
Post by FarmI
Which leads me to a question about cows...
You'd think being the Grand-daughter of ranchers that I'd know the
answer to this but I don't.
:-)) Such ignorance only says about you is that you didn't have an
unhealthy interest in the sex life of bulls.
Post by FarmI
Are bulls castrated for reasons that have to do with how the meat tastes?
Does it increase the amount of meat on the hoof?
In short, why is it routinely done?
Apart from the inconvenience of a bunch of bulls breaking down fences or
going over gates and destroying them to get to the girls, there are real
advantages to beef producers. This site will tell you more than you wanted
to know about the benefits of denutting young steers:
http://www.publish.csiro.au/paper/EA9690164.htm
Terri
2008-07-14 16:21:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Post by Terri
Which leads me to a question about cows...
You'd think being the Grand-daughter of ranchers that I'd know the
answer to this but I don't.
:-)) Such ignorance only says about you is that you didn't have an
unhealthy interest in the sex life of bulls.
No, I was busy dissecting things like mink after they were dispatched
having been caught in my grandmother's hen house.
(I wasn't the doll-playing dress-wearing type of little girl.)
Heh.
Post by FarmI
Post by Terri
Are bulls castrated for reasons that have to do with how the meat
tastes? Does it increase the amount of meat on the hoof?
In short, why is it routinely done?
Apart from the inconvenience of a bunch of bulls breaking down fences or
going over gates and destroying them to get to the girls, there are real
advantages to beef producers. This site will tell you more than you
http://www.publish.csiro.au/paper/EA9690164.htm
Ah! Thanks! I was hoping to see a site like this.
The question was formed in my mind by driving past a field with a sign
that said "Bulls for sale". I remember the castration procedure with
the bands and a squeeze chute but other than herd/breeding control
I had no idea if it did anything for or to the meat.
It's odd too, but the bulls my grandparents had were so damn docile
we were allowed to go out in the field around them often with only
an admonishment to mind our feet lest one step on it. These were
Black Angus so I don't know if the breed is just more docile or we were
just exceedingly lucky kids. On more than one occasion we used to
ride on top of one bull in particular named Buster. (My grandparents had
a name for every member of the herd.)
Peter Huebner
2008-07-14 06:55:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terri
Which leads me to a question about cows...
You'd think being the Grand-daughter of ranchers that I'd know the
answer to this but I don't.
Are bulls castrated for reasons that have to do with how the meat tastes?
Does it increase the amount of meat on the hoof?
In short, why is it routinely done?
I farm both bulls and steers (on pasture, exclusively). Bulls
are hardier, they have more gumption to go get grass in very
rough terrain, and they put on more weight quickly. But they
have their disadvantages. At around age 2 1/2 bulls start
fighting a lot amongst themselves. They become very difficult
to move as a mob, sort of like herding cats that all repulse
each other. They can also be somewhat destructive to the sward
because they tend to scratch and toss up dirt as part of their
threat behavior, and when they fight and a fence gets in the
way of the pushee, the fence comes off third best. Oh yeah, I
never stand around the back end of either one of two fighting
bulls, I get in the middle and whack them on the noses with a
stick, or growl at them: that breaks it up.

Steers are more placid, and don't have the hormonal changes
that make them fight once they get close to maturity. They are
not quite so vigorous, they have generally also a lot more
intermuscular as well as intramuscular (invisible) fat.
If you're into 'healthy' beef, bull is better for you. Because
bull has a lot less fat in it, it doesn't quite give you that
'melt in the mouth' tactile sensation, but it tastes every bit
as good, shrinks less in the pan, and has no taints or funny
flavours in any way (with the possible exception of Jersey
cattle which have yellow fat and, to my palate, taste somewhat
rancid irrespective of gender).

I've never been threatened or charged by a bull, except for one
animal that was sick unto death, in fact he charged me, ran
past, ran another 50 yards and dropped dead. He had a reason.
I also have been run over by a neighbour's bull determined to
get home, and I got in his way. He knocked me over. He did not
charge me or even look in my direction again. Cows with newborn
calves at foot can be a darn sight more dangerous than bulls,
but generally the prejudice is that "bulls are dangerous" and
they're stuck with that 'charisma'.

I've generally found that wild and frightened cattle are to be
feared a lot more than calm beasties that are used to being
handled (i.e. moved from pasture to pasture in my case) once
every week or two. Wild cattle who haven't seen people before
are very very dangerous in every situation.

-P.
--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
Terri
2008-07-14 16:40:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Huebner
Steers are more placid, and don't have the hormonal changes
that make them fight once they get close to maturity. They are
not quite so vigorous, they have generally also a lot more
intermuscular as well as intramuscular (invisible) fat.
If you're into 'healthy' beef, bull is better for you. Because
bull has a lot less fat in it, it doesn't quite give you that
'melt in the mouth' tactile sensation, but it tastes every bit
as good, shrinks less in the pan, and has no taints or funny
flavours in any way
It sounds like its a personal preference then. I couldn't tell
you if I'd eaten bull or not.
Point of interest: In Eagle, near me, is this annual event:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Mountain_oysters

It's a huge event. I've never had the desire to eat bull balls
so I couldn't tell you what they taste like.
:)
In particular, I love this quote:
"Usually this meat product is bought in freezer packs, it being a little
inconvenient to get the really fresh variety."
Post by Peter Huebner
I've generally found that wild and frightened cattle are to be
feared a lot more than calm beasties that are used to being
handled (i.e. moved from pasture to pasture in my case) once
every week or two. Wild cattle who haven't seen people before
are very very dangerous in every situation.
Last month when family was visiting the neighbor's cows got
out. My step-daughter was following behind them up the road to
see where they'd gotten out and a car came toward her.
It was enough to panic the cows and my step-daughter ended up
running full speed back the other direction and finally ended
up vaulting over our fence to avoid being in the middle of
wild eyed cows.
cj
2008-07-14 18:10:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terri
Post by Peter Huebner
Steers are more placid, and don't have the hormonal changes
that make them fight once they get close to maturity. They are
not quite so vigorous, they have generally also a lot more
intermuscular as well as intramuscular (invisible) fat.
If you're into 'healthy' beef, bull is better for you. Because
bull has a lot less fat in it, it doesn't quite give you that
'melt in the mouth' tactile sensation, but it tastes every bit
as good, shrinks less in the pan, and has no taints or funny
flavours in any way
It sounds like its a personal preference then. I couldn't tell
you if I'd eaten bull or not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Mountain_oysters
It's a huge event. I've never had the desire to eat bull balls
so I couldn't tell you what they taste like.
:)
"Usually this meat product is bought in freezer packs, it being a little
inconvenient to get the really fresh variety."
Hey Terri, my wife & I went to that event in Eagle a few years back
(before it was quite so huge). So, yeah, I've eaten bull balls. I'd have
to say they pretty much taste a lot like veal, could have been how they
were cooked though, most seemed to be thinly sliced, breaded and fried,
with various different spice mixes.

All in all, they weren't bad, but I wouldn't go out of my way to have
more. We never went back to that event, partly due to the huge crowds.

-cj
Terri
2008-07-15 02:35:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by cj
Post by Terri
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Mountain_oysters
It's a huge event. I've never had the desire to eat bull balls
so I couldn't tell you what they taste like.
:)
"Usually this meat product is bought in freezer packs, it being a
little inconvenient to get the really fresh variety."
Hey Terri, my wife & I went to that event in Eagle a few years back
(before it was quite so huge). So, yeah, I've eaten bull balls. I'd have
to say they pretty much taste a lot like veal, could have been how they
were cooked though, most seemed to be thinly sliced, breaded and fried,
with various different spice mixes.
That sounds fairly palatable to me. For some reason I had it in my mind
they'd be tough, like abalone before pounding.
Post by cj
All in all, they weren't bad, but I wouldn't go out of my way to have
more. We never went back to that event, partly due to the huge crowds.
As it happens I was trying to get from northbound Eagle Rd. to turn left
on Stateon the day it started this year. I sat through _8_ light changes
before the State Troopers showed up to direct the nightmarish traffic jam.
I had no idea it was happening that day but you can bet I'll remember to
give that area a wide berth next year should I happen to have to be in
town that day.
Good grief what a zoo!
l***@invalid.com
2008-07-15 14:21:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terri
It sounds like its a personal preference then. I couldn't tell
you if I'd eaten bull or not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Mountain_oysters
It's a huge event. I've never had the desire to eat bull balls
so I couldn't tell you what they taste like.
Barf.........
Some people will eat anything !!!!
*** NO THANKS ***
Terri
2008-07-15 22:14:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@invalid.com
Post by Terri
It sounds like its a personal preference then. I couldn't tell
you if I'd eaten bull or not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Mountain_oysters
It's a huge event. I've never had the desire to eat bull balls
so I couldn't tell you what they taste like.
Barf.........
Some people will eat anything !!!!
*** NO THANKS ***
Well, yeah. I like to try things and keep an open mind, and I
try to understand that there are some cultures that eat things
I'd never knowingly touch such as dog, but some of the bizarre
things I've tried I've liked.
Some, not so much.

Rocky Mountain Oysters don't sound all that bad to me. I'd at
least like to try them once, now that I know how they can
be prepared. A friend of mine in Australia swears by roo meat.
I don't like some of the other organ meats that a lot of
folks like such as heart, liver, kidney, etc.

Things I've eaten over the years that may be considered strange
to some:

Alligator
Crawfish
Boudin
Boiled Peanuts
Squirrel
head cheese
pigs feet
cracklins
mussels
abalone
shark
chocolate covered bees
rabbit
turtle
frog legs
haggis

Then there's the authentic Japanese food I've eaten such
as sea cucumbers and *sea urchin.
* Which to date remains the single most repulsive tasting
item that has ever passed through my lips. I've never tasted it from
I'd place a money bet that a spoonful of fresh water buffalo dung tastes
better.
l***@invalid.com
2008-07-16 10:13:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terri
Post by l***@invalid.com
Post by Terri
It sounds like its a personal preference then. I couldn't tell
you if I'd eaten bull or not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Mountain_oysters
It's a huge event. I've never had the desire to eat bull balls
so I couldn't tell you what they taste like.
Barf.........
Some people will eat anything !!!!
*** NO THANKS ***
Well, yeah. I like to try things and keep an open mind, and I
try to understand that there are some cultures that eat things
I'd never knowingly touch such as dog, but some of the bizarre
things I've tried I've liked.
Some, not so much.
Rocky Mountain Oysters don't sound all that bad to me. I'd at
least like to try them once, now that I know how they can
be prepared. A friend of mine in Australia swears by roo meat.
I don't like some of the other organ meats that a lot of
folks like such as heart, liver, kidney, etc.
Things I've eaten over the years that may be considered strange
Alligator
Crawfish
Boudin
Boiled Peanuts
Squirrel
head cheese
pigs feet
cracklins
mussels
abalone
shark
chocolate covered bees
rabbit
turtle
frog legs
haggis
Then there's the authentic Japanese food I've eaten such
as sea cucumbers and *sea urchin.
* Which to date remains the single most repulsive tasting
item that has ever passed through my lips. I've never tasted it from
I'd place a money bet that a spoonful of fresh water buffalo dung tastes
better.
The only thing on your list I have had are boiled peanuts. They're
not bad. I am a little experimentative with veggys or plants, but not
meats. I wont eat any organ meats. As a kid my mother made liver.
Chicken livers were ok, but not beef or whatever the larger ones were.
I wont touch that stuff now, except maybe the chicken livers, and
someone else cooks em'.

How this thread ever went from sheep tails to eating bull balls, I
will never know....
Jim Elbrecht
2008-07-16 11:58:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terri
Post by l***@invalid.com
Post by Terri
It sounds like its a personal preference then. I couldn't tell
you if I'd eaten bull or not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Mountain_oysters
It's a huge event. I've never had the desire to eat bull balls
so I couldn't tell you what they taste like.
Barf.........
Some people will eat anything !!!!
*** NO THANKS ***
Well, yeah. I like to try things and keep an open mind, and I
try to understand that there are some cultures that eat things
I'd never knowingly touch such as dog, but some of the bizarre
things I've tried I've liked.
Some, not so much.
Rocky Mountain Oysters don't sound all that bad to me. I'd at
least like to try them once, now that I know how they can
be prepared. A friend of mine in Australia swears by roo meat.
I don't like some of the other organ meats that a lot of
folks like such as heart, liver, kidney, etc.
Things I've eaten over the years that may be considered strange
Alligator
Never had the pleasure.
Post by Terri
Crawfish
Sadly, not impressed. But I'll grant you the chances that I had
'good' crawdads in upstate NY are slim. [Come to think of it I
have eaten the wild ones- but up here they are only an inch or two
long for the most part]
Post by Terri
Boudin
Had to look this one up. Never had it but it sounds good. I like
organ meats and have raised pigs so I've eaten all the ingredients.
Post by Terri
Boiled Peanuts
Cream of peanut soup count? yummy
Post by Terri
Squirrel
I'll see your squirrel and raise you. . .
Woodchuck
Raccoon
Chipmunk
Post by Terri
head cheese
pigs feet
cracklins
Made my own on all 3. Never eat the store-bought head cheese or
cracklins again.
Post by Terri
mussels
abalone
shark
chocolate covered bees
Never like to sweeten my insects too much.<g> I don't remember bees-
but the ants I had might as well have been rice crispies.
Post by Terri
rabbit
turtle
frog legs
haggis
Was it here someone mentioned we can get haggis canned in the states?
I have it on my 'list of things to try someday'.[right under
veg-o-mite]

I firmly believe that variety is the spice of life. If it isn't
bland, I'll probably eat it once.
Post by Terri
Then there's the authentic Japanese food I've eaten such
as sea cucumbers and *sea urchin.
* Which to date remains the single most repulsive tasting
item that has ever passed through my lips. I've never tasted it from
I'd place a money bet that a spoonful of fresh water buffalo dung tastes
better.
I ate a fresh urchin once on a lobster boat. Salty- weird texture- no
desire to repeat, but I didn't think it was bad.

Jim
RT
2008-07-14 20:43:08 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 18:55:13 +1200, Peter Huebner
Post by Peter Huebner
Post by Terri
Which leads me to a question about cows...
You'd think being the Grand-daughter of ranchers that I'd know the
answer to this but I don't.
Are bulls castrated for reasons that have to do with how the meat tastes?
Does it increase the amount of meat on the hoof?
In short, why is it routinely done?
I farm both bulls and steers (on pasture, exclusively). Bulls
are hardier, they have more gumption to go get grass in very
rough terrain, and they put on more weight quickly. But they
have their disadvantages. At around age 2 1/2 bulls start
fighting a lot amongst themselves. They become very difficult
to move as a mob, sort of like herding cats that all repulse
each other. They can also be somewhat destructive to the sward
because they tend to scratch and toss up dirt as part of their
threat behavior, and when they fight and a fence gets in the
way of the pushee, the fence comes off third best. Oh yeah, I
never stand around the back end of either one of two fighting
bulls, I get in the middle and whack them on the noses with a
stick, or growl at them: that breaks it up.
Steers are more placid, and don't have the hormonal changes
that make them fight once they get close to maturity. They are
not quite so vigorous, they have generally also a lot more
intermuscular as well as intramuscular (invisible) fat.
If you're into 'healthy' beef, bull is better for you. Because
bull has a lot less fat in it, it doesn't quite give you that
'melt in the mouth' tactile sensation, but it tastes every bit
as good, shrinks less in the pan, and has no taints or funny
flavours in any way (with the possible exception of Jersey
cattle which have yellow fat and, to my palate, taste somewhat
rancid irrespective of gender).
I've never been threatened or charged by a bull, except for one
animal that was sick unto death, in fact he charged me, ran
past, ran another 50 yards and dropped dead. He had a reason.
I also have been run over by a neighbour's bull determined to
get home, and I got in his way. He knocked me over. He did not
charge me or even look in my direction again. Cows with newborn
calves at foot can be a darn sight more dangerous than bulls,
but generally the prejudice is that "bulls are dangerous" and
they're stuck with that 'charisma'.
I've generally found that wild and frightened cattle are to be
feared a lot more than calm beasties that are used to being
handled (i.e. moved from pasture to pasture in my case) once
every week or two. Wild cattle who haven't seen people before
are very very dangerous in every situation.
-P.
My (now) wife and I were hiking in S. Calf. when a cow came out of the
brush and literally stalked us. Snorting, Blowing, charging, she had
us dancing around bushes!. I could tell she was freshened, and so we
knew there was a little one about. I finally caught a glimpse of the
calf, and once we knew which way to "dance" (away) she lost interest-
after about 100 yards! That was one scary animal.

RT
FarmI
2008-07-15 07:33:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Huebner
I farm both bulls and steers (on pasture, exclusively). Bulls
are hardier, they have more gumption to go get grass in very
rough terrain, and they put on more weight quickly.
We tend to cut our calves a bit on the late side so that we can benefit from
the extra growth put on by uncut steers.
Post by Peter Huebner
I've never been threatened or charged by a bull, except for one
animal that was sick unto death, in fact he charged me, ran
past, ran another 50 yards and dropped dead. He had a reason.
I also have been run over by a neighbour's bull determined to
get home, and I got in his way. He knocked me over. He did not
charge me or even look in my direction again. Cows with newborn
calves at foot can be a darn sight more dangerous than bulls,
but generally the prejudice is that "bulls are dangerous" and
they're stuck with that 'charisma'.
Yup. We've only had one problem bull and it was because he was hand reared.
And he was a problem (to humans) only when being fed because he'd push to
get to the food because he wanted it "NOW".

I used to feed the cattle from the ute and I had to get out of the ute cab
on the non bull side and climb direct from the cab into the tub back and
feed out from there or he was a problem. He nearly squashed me in the door
once by pushing and I wasn't a happy camper. Once he had a pile of hay in
front of him he was as sweet as a kitten, but till then.....
Post by Peter Huebner
I've generally found that wild and frightened cattle are to be
feared a lot more than calm beasties that are used to being
handled (i.e. moved from pasture to pasture in my case) once
every week or two. Wild cattle who haven't seen people before
are very very dangerous in every situation.
Yup. We cull any cow that has a tendency to do that sudden action of
sticking her head in the air.
Janet Baraclough
2008-07-15 15:40:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Yup. We've only had one problem bull and it was because he was hand reared.
One fell in a swimming pool the other day

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7503003.stm (with pics)

Janet
FarmI
2008-07-15 23:37:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet Baraclough
Post by FarmI
Yup. We've only had one problem bull and it was because he was hand reared.
One fell in a swimming pool the other day
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7503003.stm (with pics)
Poor bull! But a swimming pool in Fife????? What were they thinking? If
we, with a long, very hot summer wouldn't contemplate a pool...........
Janet Baraclough
2008-07-16 02:50:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Post by Janet Baraclough
Post by FarmI
Yup. We've only had one problem bull and it was because he was hand reared.
One fell in a swimming pool the other day
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7503003.stm (with pics)
Poor bull! But a swimming pool in Fife????? What were they thinking? If
we, with a long, very hot summer wouldn't contemplate a pool...........
You might run out of water :-) Fife won't run dry, and any pool is
going to be warmer than the North Sea. Lots of Scottish coastal resorts
had, or have, open air unheated seawater swimming pools. It's surprising
how much solar warmth they absorb in the long daylight hours we get
this far north..even on cloudy days.

Janet.
FarmI
2008-07-17 07:27:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet Baraclough
Post by FarmI
Post by Janet Baraclough
Post by FarmI
Yup. We've only had one problem bull and it was because he was hand reared.
One fell in a swimming pool the other day
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7503003.stm
(with
pics)
Poor bull! But a swimming pool in Fife????? What were they thinking?
If
we, with a long, very hot summer wouldn't contemplate a pool...........
You might run out of water :-)
Weel they do tend to be identified by those who own them as the emergency
fire fighting pond.

Fife won't run dry, and any pool is
Post by Janet Baraclough
going to be warmer than the North Sea. Lots of Scottish coastal resorts
had, or have, open air unheated seawater swimming pools. It's surprising
how much solar warmth they absorb in the long daylight hours we get
this far north..even on cloudy days.
It wasn't the temperature of the water I was thinking of, it was the ambient
air temp....

I've decided I dont' like swimming in warm water. I like the water to be
bracing. Swimming in both the ocean and the pools in Vietnam made me think
of swimming in pee.

Neon John
2008-07-16 10:10:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Post by Janet Baraclough
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7503003.stm (with pics)
Poor bull! But a swimming pool in Fife????? What were they thinking? If
we, with a long, very hot summer wouldn't contemplate a pool...........
Man, must have been a slow day in the Empire for the BBC to be reporting on
bulls and dogs.....

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Better to pass boldly into that other world in the full glory of some passion
than fade and wither dismally with age. -Joyce
Janet Baraclough
2008-07-16 11:06:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neon John
Post by FarmI
Post by Janet Baraclough
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7503003.stm (with pics)
Poor bull! But a swimming pool in Fife????? What were they thinking? If
we, with a long, very hot summer wouldn't contemplate a pool...........
Man, must have been a slow day in the Empire for the BBC to be reporting on
bulls and dogs.....
Shows how much you know about the BBC.

Janet.
Neon John
2008-07-14 07:02:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terri
Which leads me to a question about cows...
You'd think being the Grand-daughter of ranchers that I'd know the
answer to this but I don't.
Are bulls castrated for reasons that have to do with how the meat tastes?
Does it increase the amount of meat on the hoof?
In short, why is it routinely done?
Steer meat is edible. Bull meat isn't, at least not by me. Steers will also
put on more marbling than bulls. Plus, a horny bull is a mean mutha! :-)

Now for a little chuckle. I was talking to a guy over the weekend who manages
a large commercial chicken farm. It's a chick farm in addition to laying and
broilers. He told me that in the breeding area where they produce fertile
eggs, a rooster is penned with 10 hens. That old boy has to nail each hen
every day for all the eggs to be fertile. They keep computerized track of his
"performance" and when it falls off, he goes to the dog food plant.

Kind of a "screw to live" situation :-)

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
Terri
2008-07-14 16:28:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neon John
Now for a little chuckle. I was talking to a guy over the weekend who
manages a large commercial chicken farm. It's a chick farm in addition
to laying and broilers. He told me that in the breeding area where they
produce fertile eggs, a rooster is penned with 10 hens. That old boy
has to nail each hen every day for all the eggs to be fertile. They
keep computerized track of his "performance" and when it falls off, he
goes to the dog food plant.
Kind of a "screw to live" situation :-)
Talk about performance pressure!
l***@invalid.com
2008-07-13 23:02:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Post by l***@invalid.com
I was at a county fair yesterday and was looking at the sheep. I have
seen sheep at fairs in the past but never looked that closely at them.
I've had horses, cattle, donkeys, ducks, chickens and dogs and cats.
I have never had sheep.
Well, I thought ALL animals had tails. None of the sheep had tails
except two of them that were labelled Shetland Sheep.
Do people cut them off?
Yes, or use bands where once the band is on, the rest of the tail atrophies
and eventually drops off. The tail docking is usually done at the same time
as the male lambs are denutted.
Post by l***@invalid.com
Are they just fur? No bone or flesh?
The latter.
Post by l***@invalid.com
Or do they dock them like they do on some dogs?
See first para.
Post by l***@invalid.com
I guess I never noticed this before.
I have never had any interest in sheep, but I have been wanting to try
something new and thought a couple sheep might be fun to have. Even
though they can be awfully noisy.
They look weird without tails.
They look fine without tails and there is a reason why they don't have
tails.
There is nothing worse than seeing a sheep with fly strike around it's rear
regions and under the tail of undocked sheep is a prime fly strike area.
Those morons from the animal rights group PETA are recently raising merry
hell about the practice of mulseing sheep in Australia which is cutting off
the skin around the back legs. There is a very good reason why this, and
tail docking is done - it's because of fly strike. The stupid morons at
PETA should see a sheep being eaten alive by maggots before they say that
mulseing is cruel
Thanks for the information. I suspected the tails were removed. Now
I know why. that maggot thing sounds disgusting..... YUK !!!!!

Now if I only had a couple sheep and used fly spray would that not
solve the problem? Just curious. A whole herd would be a different
matter and require a lot of spraying.

As far as PETA, who gives a shit what they say. they're idiots....
They harm more animals than they help.
They should not be allowed to breed or reproduce, or at least there
should be an "open season" on hunting PETA persons.
FarmI
2008-07-14 05:02:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@invalid.com
Post by FarmI
There is nothing worse than seeing a sheep with fly strike around it's rear
regions and under the tail of undocked sheep is a prime fly strike area.
Those morons from the animal rights group PETA are recently raising merry
hell about the practice of mulseing sheep in Australia which is cutting off
the skin around the back legs. There is a very good reason why this, and
tail docking is done - it's because of fly strike. The stupid morons at
PETA should see a sheep being eaten alive by maggots before they say that
mulseing is cruel
Thanks for the information. I suspected the tails were removed. Now
I know why. that maggot thing sounds disgusting..... YUK !!!!!
It is indeed disgusting, and if let go too long before treatment, it can
kill the animal.

Maggots do have their uses though - medically. They eat necrotic flesh and
apparently there is a new vogue for using them:
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2004/s1051346.htm
Post by l***@invalid.com
Now if I only had a couple sheep and used fly spray would that not
solve the problem? Just curious. A whole herd would be a different
matter and require a lot of spraying.
You'd be better to ask someone who lives in the US and who keeps sheep but
from what I know, that wouldn't be a sensible way to go about preventing it.
The usual way of prevention is dipping whihc requires a dip site and that is
a lot of infrastructure for a couple of sheep

Flystrike usually occurs in warm moist conditions and depending on where you
live, that may or may not occur often where you live. Sheep have a look and
a small to them when they are fly struck and it's somethign that once seen
isn't forgotten. Find an experienced shepherd in your area and spend some
time with them before you get some as sheep are high maintenance.

I don't want to dint your enthusiasm for sheep as I like them but we have
top of the line sheep yards, a fully equipped shearing shed and a proper dip
and foot bath on our farm. I am also a spinner and buy wool and we don't
have a sheep on the place. The reason is because of the high maintenance -
we breed cattle instead.
Post by l***@invalid.com
As far as PETA, who gives a shit what they say. they're idiots....
They harm more animals than they help.
They should not be allowed to breed or reproduce, or at least there
should be an "open season" on hunting PETA persons.
There is a lot of truth in that...............
l***@invalid.com
2008-07-14 11:59:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Post by l***@invalid.com
Post by FarmI
There is nothing worse than seeing a sheep with fly strike around it's rear
regions and under the tail of undocked sheep is a prime fly strike area.
Those morons from the animal rights group PETA are recently raising merry
hell about the practice of mulseing sheep in Australia which is cutting off
the skin around the back legs. There is a very good reason why this, and
tail docking is done - it's because of fly strike. The stupid morons at
PETA should see a sheep being eaten alive by maggots before they say that
mulseing is cruel
Thanks for the information. I suspected the tails were removed. Now
I know why. that maggot thing sounds disgusting..... YUK !!!!!
It is indeed disgusting, and if let go too long before treatment, it can
kill the animal.
Maggots do have their uses though - medically. They eat necrotic flesh and
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2004/s1051346.htm
Post by l***@invalid.com
Now if I only had a couple sheep and used fly spray would that not
solve the problem? Just curious. A whole herd would be a different
matter and require a lot of spraying.
You'd be better to ask someone who lives in the US and who keeps sheep but
from what I know, that wouldn't be a sensible way to go about preventing it.
The usual way of prevention is dipping whihc requires a dip site and that is
a lot of infrastructure for a couple of sheep
Flystrike usually occurs in warm moist conditions and depending on where you
live, that may or may not occur often where you live. Sheep have a look and
a small to them when they are fly struck and it's somethign that once seen
isn't forgotten. Find an experienced shepherd in your area and spend some
time with them before you get some as sheep are high maintenance.
I'll have to find someone tht raises them. Thanks
Post by FarmI
I don't want to dint your enthusiasm for sheep as I like them but we have
top of the line sheep yards, a fully equipped shearing shed and a proper dip
and foot bath on our farm. I am also a spinner and buy wool and we don't
have a sheep on the place. The reason is because of the high maintenance -
we breed cattle instead.
I'm not looking for sheep to shear or eat. Just one or two as pets.
However if I can sell the wool, I will, as long as THEY do the
shearing. I live in the Northern states of the USA, so its cold here
much of the time. The sheep will likely need their coat up here,
except in summer. I will have to assume if they are not sheared, they
will lose their coat in summer just like a horse. Is that correct?
Post by FarmI
Post by l***@invalid.com
As far as PETA, who gives a shit what they say. they're idiots....
They harm more animals than they help.
They should not be allowed to breed or reproduce, or at least there
should be an "open season" on hunting PETA persons.
There is a lot of truth in that...............
I really love animals and all of ours are treated very well. I dont
need some PETA whacko telling me that riding my horse is abusive. I'd
like to have them tell me that when I was riding my stallion. That
horse really loves me, and he'd likely kick the shit out of them, if I
gave the cue. I saw what he did to a horse slaughter buyer at the
auction where I got him. It was not pretty (for the killer). That's
why I bought him. I knew I had found a very sensitive horse, and I
was right. He has a 5th sense about people. He is the most loving
horse to those that love him, but anyone that threatens him, or my
family, and he's ready to kill. Best horse I ever owned.
FarmI
2008-07-15 07:50:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@invalid.com
I'm not looking for sheep to shear or eat. Just one or two as pets.
Yes, I thought that is what you might have had in mind, hence my advice
about them being high maintenance and why it would be worth finding a sheep
farmer near you who can advise you.

Farm animals as pets can be a problem and especially so if you don't know
what you are getting yourself into.
Post by l***@invalid.com
However if I can sell the wool, I will, as long as THEY do the
shearing. I live in the Northern states of the USA, so its cold here
much of the time. The sheep will likely need their coat up here,
except in summer. I will have to assume if they are not sheared, they
will lose their coat in summer just like a horse. Is that correct?
There are very few sheep breeds that will shed their wool and unshorn sheep
with more than one years growth on them are a sorry sight and since extra
wool lenght will encourage flystrike, you need to find that sheep farmer who
will give you some good advice and point you to resources to help you learn
about sheep.
Terri
2008-07-15 18:06:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarmI
Post by l***@invalid.com
I'm not looking for sheep to shear or eat. Just one or two as pets.
As Larry said, shearing is not optional.
Post by FarmI
Yes, I thought that is what you might have had in mind, hence my advice
about them being high maintenance and why it would be worth finding a
sheep farmer near you who can advise you.
Farm animals as pets can be a problem and especially so if you don't
know what you are getting yourself into.
You're not kidding. When I met my husband he had a ram his kids has
raised from a baby. Wizzer ( named so for obvious reasons) was as
sweet a lamb as you could ask for. The kids taught and even encouraged
Wizzer to head butt against parental warning because that's what kids do.

Then Wizzer grew. He got his hormones and his attitude. The only way
to walk out in the field with him was to carry a big club to threaten
him away when he'd try and sneak up behind you to butt you.
He caught my step-daughter once and managed to pin her leg against
the gate she was climbing up to get away from him and came close
to breaking that leg.
Don Bruder
2008-07-15 19:14:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terri
Post by FarmI
Post by l***@invalid.com
I'm not looking for sheep to shear or eat. Just one or two as pets.
As Larry said, shearing is not optional.
Post by FarmI
Yes, I thought that is what you might have had in mind, hence my advice
about them being high maintenance and why it would be worth finding a
sheep farmer near you who can advise you.
Farm animals as pets can be a problem and especially so if you don't
know what you are getting yourself into.
You're not kidding. When I met my husband he had a ram his kids has
raised from a baby. Wizzer ( named so for obvious reasons) was as
sweet a lamb as you could ask for. The kids taught and even encouraged
Wizzer to head butt against parental warning because that's what kids do.
Then Wizzer grew. He got his hormones and his attitude. The only way
to walk out in the field with him was to carry a big club to threaten
him away when he'd try and sneak up behind you to butt you.
He caught my step-daughter once and managed to pin her leg against
the gate she was climbing up to get away from him and came close
to breaking that leg.
Aye that... It's true for pretty much all farm critters, but sheep can
be surprisingly dangerous - partly 'cause everybody thinks of sheep as
those fluffy things that do nothing but stand there and eat - utterly
harmless little darlings, doncha know... <through clenched teeth>

The two ribs I got cracked by a ram while in the process of trying to
keep him from poisoning himself a few years ago are proof of just how
dangerous they can be... Needless to say, I never walked into his pen
again without a club, and that only "kept him distracted" temporarily -
You wanted to do anything in his pen that took more than half your
attention, and you'd better either rope him to the fence, or put him
someplace else while you're doing it. Assuming you value your "I'm all
in one piece-ness" that is... :-P
--
Don Bruder - ***@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info
Larry Caldwell
2008-07-17 02:31:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Bruder
Aye that... It's true for pretty much all farm critters, but sheep can
be surprisingly dangerous - partly 'cause everybody thinks of sheep as
those fluffy things that do nothing but stand there and eat - utterly
harmless little darlings, doncha know... <through clenched teeth>
About 30 years ago I had a buck goat that killed the neighbor's dog. It
was a fair sized dog, too, about a 50 lb. mongrel. The buck caught it
in front of a tree and turned its innards to bloody jelly. The dog was
dead in under 30 seconds. There was no way to save it.

I learned as a child that you never teach an animal with horns to butt.
When they grow up, you will lose every match.
--
For email, replace firstnamelastinitial
with my first name and last initial.
Don Bruder
2008-07-17 03:14:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Caldwell
Post by Don Bruder
Aye that... It's true for pretty much all farm critters, but sheep can
be surprisingly dangerous - partly 'cause everybody thinks of sheep as
those fluffy things that do nothing but stand there and eat - utterly
harmless little darlings, doncha know... <through clenched teeth>
About 30 years ago I had a buck goat that killed the neighbor's dog. It
was a fair sized dog, too, about a 50 lb. mongrel. The buck caught it
in front of a tree and turned its innards to bloody jelly. The dog was
dead in under 30 seconds. There was no way to save it.
I learned as a child that you never teach an animal with horns to butt.
When they grow up, you will lose every match.
Y'ain't careful with 'em, and you may lose a match or two BEFORE they
grow up.

I'm happier dealing with horses, thanks.

He says as if those are any less dangerous...

My six mending ribs* remind me of how bad horses can be every time I try
to roll over in bed these past few days. Fortunately, the pain has eased
back enough that I'm able to *GET IN* bed now... That wasn't an option
for the first 2 weeks - Doing anything other than sitting here in the
computer chair was an adventure in previously unexplored realms of pain,
even with heavy-duty painkillers.

I figure I've got another couple of weeks before I'm going to be able to
do much of anything more strenuous than hobbling to the barn (About a 15
minute walk each way, what with the need to avoid jolts or twists) to
throw a couple flakes of hay over the fence and make sure the water is
topped up. Thankfully the girls live on a good sized pasture with a
"used to be 5 stalls" run-in that they aren't much interested in using
right now - I can't operate a wheelbarrow (can't lift much more than a
flake of hay without knife-jabs to the chest and back) and the motion of
trying to run a fork is pretty much out of the question, for the same
reason.

* 4 definitely broken, 2 more that might have been broken, cracked, or
bruised, but since the treatment being applied would be the same
regardless, it was decided that shooting more pictures to find out
exactly how bad they were would be a pointless waste of time, effort,
and money. Bruised lung, multiple cartilage tears and torn muscles front
and back to go along with 'em, but those were/are minor compared to the
(ongoing) pain from the ribs...
--
Don Bruder - ***@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info
l***@invalid.com
2008-07-17 03:26:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Bruder
Post by Larry Caldwell
Post by Don Bruder
Aye that... It's true for pretty much all farm critters, but sheep can
be surprisingly dangerous - partly 'cause everybody thinks of sheep as
those fluffy things that do nothing but stand there and eat - utterly
harmless little darlings, doncha know... <through clenched teeth>
About 30 years ago I had a buck goat that killed the neighbor's dog. It
was a fair sized dog, too, about a 50 lb. mongrel. The buck caught it
in front of a tree and turned its innards to bloody jelly. The dog was
dead in under 30 seconds. There was no way to save it.
I learned as a child that you never teach an animal with horns to butt.
When they grow up, you will lose every match.
Y'ain't careful with 'em, and you may lose a match or two BEFORE they
grow up.
I'm happier dealing with horses, thanks.
He says as if those are any less dangerous...
My six mending ribs* remind me of how bad horses can be every time I try
to roll over in bed these past few days. Fortunately, the pain has eased
back enough that I'm able to *GET IN* bed now... That wasn't an option
for the first 2 weeks - Doing anything other than sitting here in the
computer chair was an adventure in previously unexplored realms of pain,
even with heavy-duty painkillers.
I figure I've got another couple of weeks before I'm going to be able to
do much of anything more strenuous than hobbling to the barn (About a 15
minute walk each way, what with the need to avoid jolts or twists) to
throw a couple flakes of hay over the fence and make sure the water is
topped up. Thankfully the girls live on a good sized pasture with a
"used to be 5 stalls" run-in that they aren't much interested in using
right now - I can't operate a wheelbarrow (can't lift much more than a
flake of hay without knife-jabs to the chest and back) and the motion of
trying to run a fork is pretty much out of the question, for the same
reason.
* 4 definitely broken, 2 more that might have been broken, cracked, or
bruised, but since the treatment being applied would be the same
regardless, it was decided that shooting more pictures to find out
exactly how bad they were would be a pointless waste of time, effort,
and money. Bruised lung, multiple cartilage tears and torn muscles front
and back to go along with 'em, but those were/are minor compared to the
(ongoing) pain from the ribs...
What the heck did you do?

Sounds to me like you got on an untrained horse....
I wont get on any horse who is not well trained. Once I broke a few
ribs on a "trained" horse who started to buck.
Every other time I have fallen off a horse it was my own fault, not
the horse. I enjoy riding, but most of the time I just like being
around horses. They are such loving creatures. On the ground, they
are pretty safe except when they step on my foot.....
Don Bruder
2008-07-17 04:58:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@invalid.com
Post by Don Bruder
Post by Larry Caldwell
Post by Don Bruder
Aye that... It's true for pretty much all farm critters, but sheep can
be surprisingly dangerous - partly 'cause everybody thinks of sheep as
those fluffy things that do nothing but stand there and eat - utterly
harmless little darlings, doncha know... <through clenched teeth>
About 30 years ago I had a buck goat that killed the neighbor's dog. It
was a fair sized dog, too, about a 50 lb. mongrel. The buck caught it
in front of a tree and turned its innards to bloody jelly. The dog was
dead in under 30 seconds. There was no way to save it.
I learned as a child that you never teach an animal with horns to butt.
When they grow up, you will lose every match.
Y'ain't careful with 'em, and you may lose a match or two BEFORE they
grow up.
I'm happier dealing with horses, thanks.
He says as if those are any less dangerous...
My six mending ribs* remind me of how bad horses can be every time I try
to roll over in bed these past few days. Fortunately, the pain has eased
back enough that I'm able to *GET IN* bed now... That wasn't an option
for the first 2 weeks - Doing anything other than sitting here in the
computer chair was an adventure in previously unexplored realms of pain,
even with heavy-duty painkillers.
I figure I've got another couple of weeks before I'm going to be able to
do much of anything more strenuous than hobbling to the barn (About a 15
minute walk each way, what with the need to avoid jolts or twists) to
throw a couple flakes of hay over the fence and make sure the water is
topped up. Thankfully the girls live on a good sized pasture with a
"used to be 5 stalls" run-in that they aren't much interested in using
right now - I can't operate a wheelbarrow (can't lift much more than a
flake of hay without knife-jabs to the chest and back) and the motion of
trying to run a fork is pretty much out of the question, for the same
reason.
* 4 definitely broken, 2 more that might have been broken, cracked, or
bruised, but since the treatment being applied would be the same
regardless, it was decided that shooting more pictures to find out
exactly how bad they were would be a pointless waste of time, effort,
and money. Bruised lung, multiple cartilage tears and torn muscles front
and back to go along with 'em, but those were/are minor compared to the
(ongoing) pain from the ribs...
What the heck did you do?
Sounds to me like you got on an untrained horse....
You might say it's part of my job description - Falls under
"miscellaneous services", you might say. Been doing it close enough to
40 years. I've been hurt by horses before - usually my own fault, but
this is the first time I've ever been damaged this bad. Really ugly
get-off when a horse thought to be at least decently trained went rodeo
under me during a "let's see if he's trained" ride. I got jigged screwy
by one buck, the next one left me hanging about 8 feet off the ground,
then he came up in another buck, and I got hit in the ribs as I fell
across the bony part of his rump while he was coming up in the next
buck. That boosted me back up, and then I dropped like a rock - Again
with the ribs hitting the bony part of his rump. Then I finally slid
down his hind legs as he relocated to "somewhere else" and landed in a
broken pile on the ground, wondering who revoked my license to breathe.

Like I said, I've been hurt before, but never like this...
Post by l***@invalid.com
I wont get on any horse who is not well trained. Once I broke a few
ribs on a "trained" horse who started to buck.
Disaster can happen *ANY* time, on *ANY* horse. I don't care how old or
well trained, there's not a horse made that's perfectly "bulletproof".
There simply is no such thing. Get careless around horses, and you're
likely to find yourself getting hurt in a hurry. Even the itty-bitties
can do you a world of hurt if they hit you right. And the *REALLY* big
boys can wipe you into a paste on the wall without even realizing
they're doing it until they turn around and notice the smear!
Post by l***@invalid.com
Every other time I have fallen off a horse it was my own fault, not
the horse. I enjoy riding, but most of the time I just like being
around horses. They are such loving creatures. On the ground, they
are pretty safe except when they step on my foot.....
--
Don Bruder - ***@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info
Terri
2008-07-17 05:32:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Bruder
Post by Don Bruder
I'm happier dealing with horses, thanks.
He says as if those are any less dangerous...
My six mending ribs* remind me of how bad horses can be every time I
try to roll over in bed these past few days. Fortunately, the pain has
eased back enough that I'm able to *GET IN* bed now... That wasn't an
option for the first 2 weeks - Doing anything other than sitting here
in the computer chair was an adventure in previously unexplored realms
of pain, even with heavy-duty painkillers.
I can't operate a wheelbarrow (can't
Post by Don Bruder
Post by Don Bruder
lift much more than a flake of hay without knife-jabs to the chest and
back) and the motion of trying to run a fork is pretty much out of the
question, for the same reason.
You have my sympathies. Just my stupid broken foot slowed me down enough
as it is. You're so very, very lucky though. But then I think you know
that.
Post by Don Bruder
You might say it's part of my job description - Falls under
"miscellaneous services", you might say. Been doing it close enough to
40 years.
Disaster can happen *ANY* time, on *ANY* horse. I don't care how old or
well trained, there's not a horse made that's perfectly "bulletproof".
There simply is no such thing.
Are you Don from Wreck.eq, by any chance?
The name sounds tantalizingly familiar.
Ann
2008-07-17 03:44:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Caldwell
Post by Don Bruder
Aye that... It's true for pretty much all farm critters, but sheep can
be surprisingly dangerous - partly 'cause everybody thinks of sheep as
those fluffy things that do nothing but stand there and eat - utterly
harmless little darlings, doncha know... <through clenched teeth>
About 30 years ago I had a buck goat that killed the neighbor's dog. It
was a fair sized dog, too, about a 50 lb. mongrel. The buck caught it in
front of a tree and turned its innards to bloody jelly. The dog was dead
in under 30 seconds. There was no way to save it.
I learned as a child that you never teach an animal with horns to butt.
When they grow up, you will lose every match.
If you are fortunate enough to get a re-match.
cj
2008-07-15 19:30:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terri
Post by FarmI
Post by l***@invalid.com
I'm not looking for sheep to shear or eat. Just one or two as pets.
As Larry said, shearing is not optional.
Unless you get "hair sheep". There are several breeds of these, they
shed their wool naturally. Barbados is one breed that's a bit on the
smaller side (we used to raise these, they are a bit on the wild side).
Currently, we raise Kahtadin and Dorper. These are hair sheep and shed
their wool. Sometimes when these cross with other breeds, the shedding
gene crosses too and you get one that will shed.
Post by Terri
Post by FarmI
Yes, I thought that is what you might have had in mind, hence my advice
about them being high maintenance and why it would be worth finding a
sheep farmer near you who can advise you.
Farm animals as pets can be a problem and especially so if you don't
know what you are getting yourself into.
You're not kidding. When I met my husband he had a ram his kids has
raised from a baby. Wizzer ( named so for obvious reasons) was as
sweet a lamb as you could ask for. The kids taught and even encouraged
Wizzer to head butt against parental warning because that's what kids do.
Then Wizzer grew. He got his hormones and his attitude. The only way
to walk out in the field with him was to carry a big club to threaten
him away when he'd try and sneak up behind you to butt you.
He caught my step-daughter once and managed to pin her leg against
the gate she was climbing up to get away from him and came close
to breaking that leg.
Rams are not suitable as pets. People think because sheep are small they
aren't really dangerous. A Ram can kill you if he hits you right. We
had a neighbor that had a similar story to Terri's, the dad thought it
was fun/cute to let the kids play with it, etc., letting it butt them
and other things (like a plywood "shield"). It was named "Butt Head" for
obvious reasons.

Well, the ram caught dad one day, knocked him down, broke 4 ribs and his
arm before he could get away. The ram was gone the next day...

-cj
Larry Caldwell
2008-07-15 13:47:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@invalid.com
I'm not looking for sheep to shear or eat. Just one or two as pets.
However if I can sell the wool, I will, as long as THEY do the
shearing. I live in the Northern states of the USA, so its cold here
much of the time. The sheep will likely need their coat up here,
except in summer. I will have to assume if they are not sheared, they
will lose their coat in summer just like a horse. Is that correct?
The maggots are under a thick layer of wool, so the fly spray will not
work. You can set up a dip tank and dunk the whole sheep. Sometimes
you have to do that if the flies are bad.

Shearing sheep is not optional. You HAVE to shear, or the weight of the
wool will handicap the sheep. Not shearing a sheep is cruel.
--
For email, replace firstnamelastinitial
with my first name and last initial.
Janet Baraclough
2008-07-15 15:46:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Caldwell
Post by l***@invalid.com
I'm not looking for sheep to shear or eat. Just one or two as pets.
However if I can sell the wool, I will, as long as THEY do the
shearing. I live in the Northern states of the USA, so its cold here
much of the time. The sheep will likely need their coat up here,
except in summer. I will have to assume if they are not sheared, they
will lose their coat in summer just like a horse. Is that correct?
The maggots are under a thick layer of wool, so the fly spray will not
work. You can set up a dip tank and dunk the whole sheep. Sometimes
you have to do that if the flies are bad.
Shearing sheep is not optional. You HAVE to shear, or the weight of the
wool will handicap the sheep. Not shearing a sheep is cruel.
In this climate (Scotland) , if hillbreeds don't get shorn they will
cast the whole fleece naturally anyway, ending up looking just like a
very neatly shorn sheep but without the clipper tracks on the stubble.
We often see it here on sheep who missed the gathering but the wool
won't be good for anything and as it trails around off the sheep in
streamers for a few weeks, there's more chance of the sheep getting
thoroughly tied up in thorns or blackberries.

One of the farmers here is running a trial with NZ Wiltshires breed
which always cast their own fleece

Or there's bio-clip; inject the sheep with something to make the
fleece drop off

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/short/281/5376/511c

Janet
Peter Huebner
2008-07-14 07:01:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@invalid.com
Now if I only had a couple sheep and used fly spray would that not
solve the problem? Just curious. A whole herd would be a different
matter and require a lot of spraying.
My Wife has ~20 sheep and the prevention is to periodically
during the hot months to spray (soak) the sheep with a
pyrethroid solution applied with a backpack sprayer. The
treatment works for about 4-6 weeks before it has to be
repeated. Even so, the flies sometimes lay their eggs on the
treated sheep, but usually the maggots die before they can do
damage.
She had two lambs this summer with a particularly fine thick
fleece where the treatment did not penetrate the wool and the
maggots managed to burrow through. Fortunately she discovered
both before too much damage was done.

There are other treatments around that are based on organo-
phosphate insecticides but that is really nasty shit. (think
world war I poison gas derivatives) -- really wouldn't want
that on anything I might have to handle, wear as a sweater, or
find in my freezer one day.

-P.
--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
Janet Baraclough
2008-07-13 08:49:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@invalid.com
I was at a county fair yesterday and was looking at the sheep. I have
seen sheep at fairs in the past but never looked that closely at them.
I've had horses, cattle, donkeys, ducks, chickens and dogs and cats.
I have never had sheep.
Well, I thought ALL animals had tails. None of the sheep had tails
except two of them that were labelled Shetland Sheep.
Do people cut them off?
Yes; left in place they grow to about 10 " or 12" on an adult sheep.
They are shortened because they tend to collect shit which attracts
flies. Then the maggots eat into the live flesh of the sheeps backside.
Just enough (about 3 ") is left on to cover and protect the sheep's anus
and vulva. In a sheep with a full fleeces the tail is pretty much
invisible but when they are shorn you can see the stump tails. Even with
short tails, shepherds here regularly dag sheep (trim off the shitty
bits) to avoid fly-strike.
Post by l***@invalid.com
Are they just fur? No bone or flesh?
They do have (gristly bone and flesh. Fat sheep tales are a delicacy
in the Middle East.
Post by l***@invalid.com
Or do they dock them like they do on some dogs?
Docked but a different way; a tight rubber band is put on the lambs
tails ; cutting off the circulation and the end just drops off
Post by l***@invalid.com
Now, the one I liked the most was that one male Shetland Sheep. He
had large curved horns, and was really cute. I would have taken him
home on the spot if he was for sale, and he liked me too.
The are a very hardy breed who can live in poor conditions; they
don't make a very big meat carcase.but produce a strong rather hard
wool fibre. Garments woven or knitted from it last a many decades. I
find it very slightly abrasive and irritating, I can't wear Shetland
wool next to my skin though I have no problem with other wools.

Janet.
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